Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

Quote:
You can't have some alleged influences, without the alleged genes

This is correct, but it's too bad you misunderstood my point about "THE" Wheaten gene. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. THE Wheaten gene is actually pretty easy to remove. Those "influences" which linger, well, nevermind, you guys don't want to hear it.

Sure, I'd like to hear what you are referring to as "influences".

 

[flgardengirl]

Well she is young yet they might still turn orange. I had some blue babies that had dark eyes and then they slowly turned orange.
It is wierd that some start with light greyish or greenish eyes and some very dark and they still all end up orange. I wonder if it is another trait that goes along with certain lines. I have birds that have started out with both the light eyes and dark eyes. I will have to start paying more attention to that. Interesting...

 

[snowbird]

n.smithurmond :

Quote:
If it is your desire to breed only true Black Coppers, it would behoove you to cull out the Wheaton influenced birds. If someone comes to you looking for Black Copper and gets some Wheatons it will come back on you. The gene itself really doesn't deter from the "look" of the bird, in fact, physically, he could be very correct. It's the coloring aspect of the thing...it's NOT a pure/true Black Copper. All that said, if you just want to sell eggs and chicks as "dark egg layers", well they can be purple with pink polka dots!

If you want to sell show stock that conforms to the SOP, then you would (hopefully) want to do it right! I just think of the FFA and 4-H kids that may come looking for eggs or birds, and I don't want them getting any surprises at their first show!

I see. I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the argument. But if breeders are culling for these that means they're still showing up, right? So are all breeders with wheaten influenced birds popping up not using pure/true Black Coppers? Don, you mentioned that you've culled 100's of birds this year with the same issue. Does that mean that your birds are not pure/true Black Coppers or that there's really no way to identify the correctly colored birds that are carrying the gene? I'm assuming since you're culling so heavily that your breeders meet the standard for Black Coppers in terms of color, but why then are there still 100's cropping up that have to be culled? I guess what I'm asking is what is the likelihood that holding out for a rooster that doesn't exhibit any wheaten influence going to increase my chances of eliminating the gene from my breeding pen if so many correctly colored birds are producing culls? Probably better than if I'm using a rooster I KNOW has the gene! But to what degree?​

A lot of these faults that are being recognised were not associated to wheaten before and are only now being pin pointed. Some of the males I have used in the past were colored like your male . I have mostly Wade Jeane fowl and they are the marans most noted for the wheaten blood in them, not saying there are not more. This year I have started a culling process in my Marans of culling everything that has a fault regardless of how bad. I don't want to do it one fault at a time. On the grand scale I have very few marans left to produce any kind good or bad. I just hope what I do hatch will be better than what I hatched this year. Don

 

[The Point]

The wheaten

 

[flgardengirl]

Thanks for posting all these photos, The point! I love the roo in your avatar, btw!!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
This is correct, but it's too bad you misunderstood my point about "THE" Wheaten gene. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. THE Wheaten gene is actually pretty easy to remove. Those "influences" which linger, well, nevermind, you guys don't want to hear it.

Sure, I'd like to hear what you are referring to as "influences".

One thing about this thread I have never heard anyone ever say they are not interested in someone else's opinion. My motto is if I have an opinion I let everyone hear what I have to say regardless. I like to hear what anyone has to say. Don

 

[n.smithurmond]

I've appreciated everyone's opinions and info today; thanks for all the feedback folks!

 

[Darth Egger]

Quote:
Sure, I'd like to hear what you are referring to as "influences".

One thing about this thread I have never heard anyone ever say they are not interested in someone else's opinion. My motto is if I have an opinion I let everyone hear what I have to say regardless. I like to hear what anyone has to say. Don

If that's the case, then secure the slanders and hostilities?

 

[Debbi]

n.smithurmond :

Quote:
If it is your desire to breed only true Black Coppers, it would behoove you to cull out the Wheaton influenced birds. If someone comes to you looking for Black Copper and gets some Wheatons it will come back on you. The gene itself really doesn't deter from the "look" of the bird, in fact, physically, he could be very correct. It's the coloring aspect of the thing...it's NOT a pure/true Black Copper. All that said, if you just want to sell eggs and chicks as "dark egg layers", well they can be purple with pink polka dots!

If you want to sell show stock that conforms to the SOP, then you would (hopefully) want to do it right! I just think of the FFA and 4-H kids that may come looking for eggs or birds, and I don't want them getting any surprises at their first show!

I see. I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the argument. But if breeders are culling for these that means they're still showing up, right? So are all breeders with wheaten influenced birds popping up not using pure/true Black Coppers? Don, you mentioned that you've culled 100's of birds this year with the same issue. Does that mean that your birds are not pure/true Black Coppers or that there's really no way to identify the correctly colored birds that are carrying the gene? I'm assuming since you're culling so heavily that your breeders meet the standard for Black Coppers in terms of color, but why then are there still 100's cropping up that have to be culled? I guess what I'm asking is what is the likelihood that holding out for a rooster that doesn't exhibit any wheaten influence going to increase my chances of eliminating the gene from my breeding pen if so many correctly colored birds are producing culls? Probably better than if I'm using a rooster I KNOW has the gene! But to what degree?​

I know what you're saying, I just hope I can word it right! If you can actually SEE the influences in a bird, that would be a hint as to what's behind it. On the other hand, if you had say ten birds from the same roo and different hens, then you may get some normal colored BCMs and get some WI (wheaton influenced) birds. The rub lies with the birds that come across as "normal" BCM. It would take two recessive genes (one from the roo, one from the hen) to express itself in the chick. So if the WI is not expressed in the chick, it still has the one recessive gene from the roo. Now, breed that chick to the daddy, and bingo, you've got two recessive genes again. If you breed it to an outside source, you may or may not know if they are carrying the gene...and so it goes. A crap shoot until you breed, but the ones that physically display the color influences would be a good hint as to what's back there! Phew...I'm spent!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
One thing about this thread I have never heard anyone ever say they are not interested in someone else's opinion. My motto is if I have an opinion I let everyone hear what I have to say regardless. I like to hear what anyone has to say. Don

If that's the case, then secure the slanders and hostilities?

For some reason I knew that was going to be your answer. Don