Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[gilavina]

Hey Kim....I see you've popped back in...I was just thinking of catch up some more of my birds from the middle hatch. Care to give me a second set of eyes on them? Most of them are blue coppers..and cockerels. They will be Gigantor and Big Boy offspring, mostly Gigantor's this time around tho.

 

[pinkchick]

Sure! Would love to see them, but I am just getting ready to log off. I just came in and realized that I had left my computer on. Oops! I will be back in a bit as I am sticking around the house today. Goatie stuff to do and was going to go take more photos of my Geese-ies. Also, going to get photos of some youngins'.

 

[pinkchick]

RGH!!!!!!!! What's up with BYC????? Logs me off every time I do anything or just bumps me back a page and I can't do anything.

 

[gilavina]

Sure! Would love to see them, but I am just getting ready to log off. I just came in and realized that I had left my computer on. Oops! I will be back in a bit as I am sticking around the house today. Goatie stuff to do and was going to go take more photos of my Geese-ies. Also, going to get photos of some youngins'.

No worries...I had some birdies get out and just got done catching them up. Don't know how far I'll get now with photo taking since that ate up a 1/2 hour and have to get ready for work here in just a few minutes. I'll see what I can load before I go if BYC behaves for me. Earlier when I posted a couple pics it took me a while to get them up. I am happy to report tho that I've culled two more blue boys from that same pen. One has lost all his leg feathering and the other has a shorter back and tail set I really don't like...so that helps! That leaves two blue copper boys to look at and one black copper boy that's a beast!

 

[gilavina]

ok..not great photos, but can work on some more hopefully tomorrow when I have more time...and I'm gonna be needing to keep myself busy with my dad's surgery. I don't do well waiting in waiting rooms with stress like that. I need to be doing something to work out the stress...

oh...and these birds were in with the olive egger feather monster that I sold off last week, so they are still working on getting their feathers back...forgive their shabby tails
my only pullet from this batch



copper up close


blue boy 1.... lighter shank feathering but nice toe feathering. Got a bit tore up running through my gooseberry patch when I was chasing him after he got loose.



roo 2-- love his color....needs to grow back some of his feathers...and also missing some feathering on the wing from the feather monster...grrr... I'm not 100% sold on the comb..it shows signs it might be a wee bit lazy, but willing to hold onto him a bit to see how he continues to develop because he has that wonderful copper.



my beastly black boy...he is my pal and loves attention! haha



his coppering so far

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

Arielle, I agree with most of what you say - but just because someone has a line of birds that is a well-known line that's known for quality doens't mean they are good. Most of we serious breeders keep 10% or less from a hatch; only the best of the best are held back for breeding. When I make decisions on which birds to keep after hatching off someone else's line, they are now MY line, since I have made the decisions on which to move forward with breeding from. That's not to say this it is not important what the bloodlines are...we've bred Marans long enough to know that some lines carry things that others do not. So, it's helpful info. to have.

Folks breeding to the SOP need to "arm themselves" with a copy of the SOP for the breed (that goes for any breed of course). Learn it forwards & backwards, and learn to recognize the type you are looking for. Don't purchase stock or hatching eggs from inferior parent birds. If you're buying eggs, ask for pictures - lots of them - of the parent flock. All JMO, of course!

Both of you have actually not revealed information that is useful to a novice in the breed. There is the assumption that I understand the language of the SOP and that the pictures are acturate which only an experience breeder would know.

Can you see the cunundrum? Knowing who the master breeders are are only the starting point of learning, but clearly if that person has reached that point, they have a very good understanding of that breed. I have learned breeding horses over 25years, it didn't happen in one day or one year. But knowing who to call for information has helped. ANd yes, listening to how frank a person is is very telling about honesty. I have never met a perfect horse yet every buyer wants a perfect horse. As a fairly knowledgeable horse person, I do try to educate to the level that a person wants to listen. ANd I turn away buyers at times. I expect it is the same with poultry.

Yes, absolutely there are very good breeders that will never have taken a bird to a show. But I do not yet have the knowledge to critique with accuracy.

Hence are there any master breeders of marans?

 

[gilavina]

Both of you have actually not revealed information that is useful to a novice in the breed. There is the assumption that I understand the language of the SOP and that the pictures are acturate which only an experience breeder would know.

Can you see the cunundrum? Knowing who the master breeders are are only the starting point of learning, but clearly if that person has reached that point, they have a very good understanding of that breed. I have learned breeding horses over 25years, it didn't happen in one day or one year. But knowing who to call for information has helped. ANd yes, listening to how frank a person is is very telling about honesty. I have never met a perfect horse yet every buyer wants a perfect horse. As a fairly knowledgeable horse person, I do try to educate to the level that a person wants to listen. ANd I turn away buyers at times. I expect it is the same with poultry.

Yes, absolutely there are very good breeders that will never have taken a bird to a show. But I do not yet have the knowledge to critique with accuracy.

Hence are there any master breeders of marans?

I fully understand the conundrum and is part of the difficulty in working with newer breeds for someone who has been in poultry for a long time, and more so when a person new to poultry is getting into a breed that isn't well established. Master breeder is a term used by the APA and is a whole program of stipulations and etc that a breeder has to adhere to in order to be given the title. The problem I think you will run into will be the fact that Marans have only been accepted into the APA very recently and a huge portion of the Master Breeder program falls into the category of showing and involves a quite a bit of time to accomplish and don't think that there has been enough time since they were accepted to be able to establish that. This is where my point was.

Having a Standard and learning the first 30 some pages and the Marans standard is important. Are you a member of a poultry club local to you or is there a club that has shows somewhere near you? Often at shows there is so much to learn about poultry in general that will translate into many different breeds which will help to further understand the underlying structure and desired attributes of poultry in general that make working with a specific breed easier. Most shows I've ever been to it is pretty easy to find people that are willing to show you tips and tricks for the general parts of poultry. And if you can, clerking for a judge at a show will give you a whole realm of knowledge that you otherwise may never have a chance at. I love clerking because the judges will often show real life examples of what are laid out in the first section of the SOP.

Maybe even just finding someone on the thread and see if they would be willing to work with you on a more one on one basis like in PM or email to learn? Just trying to come up with suggestions that might help

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
I have read a number of SOP's if you will for horses, I was astounded to realize the written description of a horse can be markedly the same YET in reality the body and function of the horse is quite different. Granted in the case of horses , the descriptions are developed by the paraent organization who's staff is not the same breeders and judges of the other breed. Fortunately the SOP is developed by the same body of people for all the chickens. If I am wrong on the please correct me. Reading the SOP is a guide , a perfection to breed toward; an actual example will always have a flaw, even if slight. Having good examples to look at, IMO, is key. Master breeders have this information ingrained in there brains; how can one breeder say this is the SOP and another saythis is the SOP. If they choose to ignore some aspect of the SOP, that is of concern BUT there can be valid reasons for this. I'm too much of a novice and I think I'm beating a dead horse here.

Am I beating a dead horse here?!?

 

[gilavina]

I have read a number of SOP's if you will for horses, I was astounded to realize the written description of a horse can be markedly the same YET in reality the body and function of the horse is quite different. Granted in the case of horses , the descriptions are developed by the paraent organization who's staff is not the same breeders and judges of the other breed. Fortunately the SOP is developed by the same body of people for all the chickens. If I am wrong on the please correct me. Reading the SOP is a guide , a perfection to breed toward; an actual example will always have a flaw, even if slight. Having good examples to look at, IMO, is key. Master breeders have this information ingrained in there brains; how can one breeder say this is the SOP and another saythis is the SOP. If they choose to ignore some aspect of the SOP, that is of concern BUT there can be valid reasons for this. I'm too much of a novice and I think I'm beating a dead horse here.

Am I beating a dead horse here?!?

I don't think you are. I think, while I don't want to admit this, the difficulty a lot of people...even people that have been in poultry for a long time run into is some of the things you mentioned. I tried to come up with some useful suggestions for you in my previous post...this is how I learned poultry and I think why its been a smoother transition into the Marans, because of my exposure to just the general parts of poultry that transfer to nearly all breeds (there will be occasional exceptions, but those are usually tied to the breed's specific standard). If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask, I'll try to help as much as I can lady.

 

[snowbird]

Arielle, There are no Marans master breeders as they have not been around long enough. Find a copy of the APA yearbook and it explains all the points and list the master breeders in other breeds.

Just remember you are working with chickens here and it is entirely different than Horses.