Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[snowbird]

Thank you for not making me sound silly hehe... I have had "0" success with eliminating the white in my males. I keep culling and I am up to 4 different lines now. The white fluff and white in the tail feathers have been there in my guys all along though. Ugg... I just wonder that if there are white feathers (Splash birds) roaming around in the closely linked blue gene pool...hmmm... could it be the black have it too? It just doesn't express itself the same...???

I am just so frustrated with the lack of obtaining a useable roo.

All you folks out there that have the coveted roos with no white, what are the statistics of their offspring having white pop up AND what have your test matings determined with this being passed down by the roo or the hen?

Marie, I have a lot of experience working with the Marans with the white feathers, It is not just the BC either as they all have the problem. Will be back later with what I have found to be true with my breeding program.

 

[gilavina]

On the subject of breeding the Black, Blue and splash together. If you do this breeding method how do you keep records so you can breed forward with some kind of idea of what your are going to hatch. I believe a lot of the problems with the BC is coming from using them in such a way. The Black,Blue and splash is just what it says and I fail to see Black Copper in this group. The breeders them selves have caused all the BC problems and it will take a very dedicated effort to correct. Every time I see this it blows my feeble little mind. Enough said.

Haha feeble mind...too funny Don! Don't believe it for a second!

As you know, I have both Black Coppers and Blue Coppers. I do use my black coppers in my blue copper program, but am careful about my records from time of hatch. I usually, although last year did it opposite, will hatch all my black coppers first, recording who was mated to who and each chick is marked for the black to black matings, then when I am in the process of my last hatch will separate and reset my pens to breed for the blues, and in this I will use some of my black coppers as well as some splash coppers. These also get recorded with the matings and are marked with a different set of info from the black coppers. I keep these straight pretty easily as they are kept in separate grow out pens. I do also mark the different matings separately so I know. I use a system of colored bands and numbered bands that works well for me.

Luella, that Blue Copper Pullet is the result of a mating from a Black copper to blue mating. She will be used exclusively in the development of more blue coppers. I have found going this way for me has helped to increase the type and helps me to control the color tone. The black coppers that come out of the black to blue matings are housed and marked for use with the blues. I don't keep enough birds on the place to get confused very easily as I cull really, really heavily.

 

[snowbird]

Thank you for not making me sound silly hehe... I have had "0" success with eliminating the white in my males. I keep culling and I am up to 4 different lines now. The white fluff and white in the tail feathers have been there in my guys all along though. Ugg... I just wonder that if there are white feathers (Splash birds) roaming around in the closely linked blue gene pool...hmmm... could it be the black have it too? It just doesn't express itself the same...???

I am just so frustrated with the lack of obtaining a useable roo.

All you folks out there that have the coveted roos with no white, what are the statistics of their offspring having white pop up AND what have your test matings determined with this being passed down by the roo or the hen?

Marie, I have a lot of experience working with the Marans with the white feathers, It is not just the BC either as they all have the problem. Will be back later with what I have found to be true with my breeding program.

 

[Connie Marie]

Marie, I have a lot of experience working with the Marans with the white feathers, It is not just the BC either as they all have the problem. Will be back later with what I have found to be true with my breeding program.

Thank you Snowbird! If I don't get a useable roo soon.. errgg.. I have only BC BTW!

I am trying very hard to breed to the SOP. My program has been at a halt for over a year now because of this white tail feather issue.

 

[hobbychicken]

Sorry didn't mean to cause an issue. It just hard for a newbie to get the right info. I can separate and breed both colors. That's not a problem. Just wanted to make sure I am doing it right. Your response also answered another question. I have read that the bcm is all messed up from several sources and wanted to know what they meant by that. So they means that the breed is messed up due to mixing the colors ? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[zipf]

My two look just like these. I don't know much about the breed, and had been wondering if the feathered feet was a normal thing as only one of mine has that.

 

[elless]

Thank you Snowbird! If I don't get a useable roo soon.. errgg.. I have only BC BTW!

I am trying very hard to breed to the SOP. My program has been at a halt for over a year now because of this white tail feather issue.

Hi Connie!
On the issue of white fluff in tail feathers and hackles. When is the latest this can show up? The Cottage Hill boy I have doesn't have any...so far. Fingers crossed. The pullet doesn't either. I too am trying to breed my BC as close to the SOP as possible.
A few questions to throw into the discussion. Does anyone know if the white fluff (tail and hackle) is an issue with foreign (European: French, Belgium, German, etc.) Black Coppers or just a North American issue? And, has anyone done any genetic/DNA studies on the Marans to find color markers, etc. that might help determine what is going on? For example, looking at DNA from a Black Copper without white fluff versus one that does not have a hint of it. Another thought, most BCM chicks I have seen have white feathers on their wing tips, these molt out to black. Could this white fluff issue (I'm going to call this "WF" from now on) be related to these white wing feathers? I've seen in photos that the new LP BCM line chicks do not have white wing tips at all, I'm not sure if there is a WF issue with these birds since they are new to the scene. I'm interested to hear what folks have to say regarding these questions.
~Lisa

I'm posting this for photo reference to what I'm calling out above, this is in no way meant as an advertisement!! http://www.copperhacklecoop.com/nonusa/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=10

 

[Connie Marie]

Hi Connie!
On the issue of white fluff in tail feathers and hackles. When is the latest this can show up? The Cottage Hill boy I have doesn't have any...so far. Fingers crossed. The pullet doesn't either. I too am trying to breed my BC as close to the SOP as possible.
A few questions to throw into the discussion. Does anyone know if the white fluff (tail and hackle) is an issue with foreign (European: French, Belgium, German, etc.) Black Coppers or just a North American issue? And, has anyone done any genetic/DNA studies on the Marans to find color markers, etc. that might help determine what is going on? For example, looking at DNA from a Black Copper without white fluff versus one that does not have a hint of it. Another thought, most BCM chicks I have seen have white feathers on their wing tips, these molt out to black. Could this white fluff issue (I'm going to call this "WF" from now on) be related to these white wing feathers? I've seen in photos that the new LP BCM line chicks do not have white wing tips at all, I'm not sure if there is a WF issue with these birds since they are new to the scene. I'm interested to hear what folks have to say regarding these questions.
~Lisa

I'm posting this for photo reference to what I'm calling out above, this is in no way meant as an advertisement!! http://www.copperhacklecoop.com/nonusa/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=10

Thank you for asking those questions! I too have the EXACT same questions, especially about the EU birds vs. US. I also have 6 Cottage Hill chicks I am growing out so *fingers crossed*

 

[Wynette]

Hi Connie!
On the issue of white fluff in tail feathers and hackles. When is the latest this can show up? The Cottage Hill boy I have doesn't have any...so far. Fingers crossed. The pullet doesn't either. I too am trying to breed my BC as close to the SOP as possible.
A few questions to throw into the discussion. Does anyone know if the white fluff (tail and hackle) is an issue with foreign (European: French, Belgium, German, etc.) Black Coppers or just a North American issue? And, has anyone done any genetic/DNA studies on the Marans to find color markers, etc. that might help determine what is going on? For example, looking at DNA from a Black Copper without white fluff versus one that does not have a hint of it. Another thought, most BCM chicks I have seen have white feathers on their wing tips, these molt out to black. Could this white fluff issue (I'm going to call this "WF" from now on) be related to these white wing feathers? I've seen in photos that the new LP BCM line chicks do not have white wing tips at all, I'm not sure if there is a WF issue with these birds since they are new to the scene. I'm interested to hear what folks have to say regarding these questions.
~Lisa

I'm posting this for photo reference to what I'm calling out above, this is in no way meant as an advertisement!! http://www.copperhacklecoop.com/nonusa/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=10

too bad the pictures stop at 6 weeks. I was scrolling through with a HUGE amount of interest and then they just stopped. ARGH! I wonder if this chick is just now 6 weeks? I have to say that the line I've worked with that had the MOST white was the Cottage Hill. I got them directly from Buddy Henry, who is a close friend. He sent me the 3 best cockerels he had (this was 3 years ago), and all 3 developed the white in the wing and tails. It was the worst I'd seen. Such a shame, I really, really liked those birds. One was overmelanized. The others - great type, good size, everythign seemed in order. They did not develop the white until they were probably 24 weeks. I sent pictures to Buddy and he told me to cull as it would breed forward. It was then that I began really looking closely at my other lines. Also, I had a male from another breeder that looked just fine, WF-wise, until he was almost 2 years old.

As far as the reason they're mixed up - it is said that in France they ran the Wheaten and the Black Copper together, as the cock birds looked so similar...it's thought that when they were imported here, we figured it out on our end (so to speak, and this is a nuthsell version of what I have heard).

 

[elless]

too bad the pictures stop at 6 weeks. I was scrolling through with a HUGE amount of interest and then they just stopped. ARGH! I wonder if this chick is just now 6 weeks? I have to say that the line I've worked with that had the MOST white was the Cottage Hill. I got them directly from Buddy Henry, who is a close friend. He sent me the 3 best cockerels he had (this was 3 years ago), and all 3 developed the white in the wing and tails. It was the worst I'd seen. Such a shame, I really, really liked those birds. One was overmelanized. The others - great type, good size, everythign seemed in order. They did not develop the white until they were probably 24 weeks. I sent pictures to Buddy and he told me to cull as it would breed forward. It was then that I began really looking closely at my other lines. Also, I had a male from another breeder that looked just fine, WF-wise, until he was almost 2 years old.

As far as the reason they're mixed up - it is said that in France they ran the Wheaten and the Black Copper together, as the cock birds looked so similar...it's thought that when they were imported here, we figured it out on our end (so to speak, and this is a nuthsell version of what I have heard).

Hi Wynette
Man, that sucks about those roos

So, is the thinking that the Wheaten is where the WF is coming from? I don't have Wheaten to compare to but do they have the WF and are they supposed to have it? Do Wheaten also have white wing tips as chicks?