mcmurry sick chicks please post here

[pepperluvsmee]

I called MM yesterday because I have chicks coming in next month. They are to be vaccinated. I tried to get them to not vaccinate, but I got the run around. And NO was the final answer. I mentioned some things I had heard hear (not mentioning any names) and she said she had not heard that there was anything going on. Which I assume is proper protocol.
So, now I have to sit and wait. And HOPE that my chicks don't die.
I also aksed how long I had to quarantine them from my other birds which are not going to be vaccinated. Peeps I have purchased recently, she said 48 hours. Is that correct?
I am really, really scared. After all the tragedy with my birds the last couple of months, this is truley the last thing I need.
-Theresa

 

[MNKris]

In a search to see if anyone had done an analysis on their chicks, I searched the web because I wanted to know if there was anything else I could do to treat mine. There are at least 4 other boards and 1 list talking about McMurray chicks with the same symptoms described here that I found with just a quick search of "McMurray sick chicks", but none had done an official analysis. I am not sure if any members cross boards, I know I don't, but maybe some of you do.

I spoke at length with a supervisor at McMurray yesterday. I was on the phone with her for over a 1/2 hour. I described the symptoms. She said a problem had already been reported and the owners were looking into it. At that time (about 1 PM), she was not able to get an owner on the phone and did not know if any action had been taken at this point. She was extremely nice and compassionate and 100% of our chicks have been refunded of the 5 breeds. If you are getting a bad response from a MM Customer Service Rep, ask to speak with a supervisor. As we all know, being mean isn't going to get you anywhere. When I have been thorough and articulate my issues, I have always gotten a great response. When I put myself in MM shoes, I wouldn't just refund every tom, dick and harry either. They do have a business to run.

Although I strongly believe this originated somewhere other than our property, we have no proof. Based on our situation, talking it through with McMurray, etc., we do not believe we could have changed this outcome unless this is an extremely contagious virus (that should have then spread to our other chickens and it hasn't yet). We are a good test sample for them because we have 2 orders picked up, not shipped, and multiple breeds (11 breeds, only 5 affected) and the two orders have been kept in two completely different environments. I have posted several times the different environments, so if you are curious, please review the entire thread. Ours were vaccinated for Marek's and Cocci. We have our own chicks on the place that have not been vaccinated as well. I would also like the add that I have raised chickens for over 30 years, LOTS of them. I just hatched out over 40 of my own in Dec and Feb and they are doing fine as far as I can see.

Some of you have asked why we don't go get an analysis done? Put yourself in our shoes. We are 135 miles away from the nearest lab and it will cost just over $100. Do I want to know what is going on? Absolutely. Is it cost prohibitive given the situation? Maybe. We have other chicks and chickens that aren't sick. Only the MM chicks are sick. Granted, our chicks aren't co-mingling, but I believe if this was highly contagious, it would have spread by our clothes and the air. Am I ordering new chicks? Not at this point. I do have some very expensive Marans eggs coming that will be put upstairs away from these chickens and I am concerned about them, or course. I asked MM to pay for the analysis and they do not do that. They will only refund the birds, and they happily did that for me. My concern is now to not have this thing spread.

I wanted to post some photos too. I tried to take a video with the shaking heads, but my camera has auto steadying on it and I can't figure out how to shut it off! Anyway, in the first photo, here are 4 chicks that all showed the symptoms, very mildly, and now can all walk, eat, and drink on their own. In fact, the EEs are little piggies. See all the feed they have "spread" around? They get up there and dig in the feed and act like normal chicks do. These 4 in this pen do not shake at all and they are all eating very well at this point. The Marans is now about 3-4 times the size of the EEs and about 2-3 times the size of the Blue Cochin. These are all standards. So, even if they do recover, you don't know what you are going to get. These EE are smaller than my bantam EE that I got the same day from MM. The Marans is slightly smaller than the 2 Marans that weren't affected and still living with the original group. BTW - all 6 of my other breeds are still doing excellent, and knock on wood, I haven't lost any of those (76 chicks total).

Size Differences in Order 1 "Recovered"

Order 2 sick chicks No, I am not keeping them in the box. I just took their photo in there. These cochins are acting the same way, but may be more severely affected. They tuck their heads like they have a headache or something. Still bad balance and all the other symptoms too.

Order 1 buff rocks "survived, but not normal". Also 1 Marans in photo. No, I am not keeping them in the box. I just took their photo in there. All have shaking heads except the Marans.

Lastly, to the moderators and others...With the exception of just a few, I think most people's frustration is with the mixed messages they are receiving from MM customer support. It really does depend who you talk to at MM if you get answers or not. At this point, I think we can safely say something wierd is going on here. We don't know what it is yet, but we need to keep this discussion open until we figure out what is going on. And, if I might boldly add, the post of one of the moderators that implies this is our fault is defaming as well. It also implies that we don't know our business and that we aren't responsible. Please look at BOTH sides of this issue. I do not condone anyone bashing the hatchery. I understand that they can't jump on the panic bandwagon. But, it is COMPLETELY unfair that a moderator blindly say it's the chick owners fault because she has NEVER had one arrive sick. Well, neither had I until this year...

And I quote "I have recieved many chicks over the years from MM and have NEVER had one arrive sick or with a mortal fatality.

Please remember that part of the responsibility of having chicks is not can you order them when you want but when is the best time of the year to order them."

 

[pepperluvsmee]

All of this just breaks my heart.....how frustrating and heart breaking to watch these babies die, slowly.
My heart goes out to all of you who are losing or have lost babies over the last couple of weeks.

-Theresa

 

[TheFunnyFarm]

Quote:
48 hours is not kong enough in my opinion ,chicks don't show any sign of illness untill about 2 to 3 weeks .

 

[LoneCowboy]

I had no problem having my chick's switched from vaccinated to not vaccinated. They didn't give me any problem at all. I just told them I wanted to delete the vaccinations from my order. And they did it. No questions asked, nothing.

I'm wondering if the vaccination is the problem. My chick's are all fine happy, thriving and not having any problem's, but I didn't have them vaccinated.

 

[coopist]

I'm wondering the same, LoneCowboy. Some of these issues do sound possibly vaccination related. A contaminated vaccine could cause some of these issues, and early shipping could make them much more likely to affect the chicks due to stress. I remember reading an article once about how Pasteur was doing an experiment and tried to make chickens sick by injecting them with a pathogen, but he failed until he put the birds' feet in ice water. The chilling got them sick fast.

I've seen video of hatcheries auto-vaccinating in the shell with a robotic needle. It's certainly the sort of industrialized practice that makes you wonder...

 

[TheFunnyFarm]

I met a member on this site that does not live that far from me and we spoke on the phone this morning and she was on her way with chicks from MM to a vet for testing with some going to UW for testing also ,We dont know how long the testing will take ,but hopefully we will know something soon
My buff orpys are now showing signs ,and if I failed to mention I have talked with MM yesterday and they were very nice and were very quick to refund my money and they did say that they had other reports about this illness that day but did not know anything other then that . MM has hundreds of hatcheries all over the country hopefully they're looking at what hatchery or hatcheries these sick chicks were ship from,does that make sence to anyone? I dont know these are my first chicks and I,m not shur how the hole hatchery business works. And for the phone call I placed to UW still waiting .

 

[amaliayosa]

But what about those that didnt vaccinate and still have sick chicks?

 

[coopist]

Again, there are probably multiple causes here, with some experiencing one, some another, some both. Also, don't forget that some people are having no problems at all.

The simplest and most obvious factor is chilling, which can cause many problems, some of which drag on for a long time. Some of these issues are immune-system related and growth/development related, which can cause the birds to get sick later. Some people's issues are probably related to that alone.

However, what MNKris describes does sound beyond what you'd expect for chilling alone, and I'm guessing, since vaccination was involved, that it's a factor. It's only a guess, though...

I think it's important not to jump to conclusions, or to overgeneralize too much, that is, not to think a single epidemic factor is causing everyone's trouble. While chilling may be involved in many cases, and vaccination in some, I doubt there's some new epidemic on the loose.

 

[TheFunnyFarm]

Quote:
I was told that MM sprays their chick ,Im only assuming but wouldn't or couldn't that get on other chicks as well? I dont know fur shur they wont say.