Medicated vs Non-Medicated Feed

[casportpony]

Thanks.....I was reading info on the Corid on Amazon and see it's for various livestock not just chickens...I was only looking in the chicken aisles. They may all have it elsewhere, I didn't ask....I think I'll go back to our closest store today.

Corid is "labeled" for cattle, so it's almost always in the cattle section. Any amprolium powder or liquid can be used, and two other products are called AmproMed and Amprol.

 

[SueT]

Okay, I went into town, the store has lots of Corid in liquid form, in with the cattle meds. It's ten minutes away, they are open long hours, I'll go get some if I find I need it.
This will be my 3rd yr. raising chicks. I never knew about coccidiosis, never gave medicated feed and no one ever got sick. Everyone was raised the same way, same brooder/cage with shavings raked up off the ground, same coop, same run at 4 to 5 weeks. Hopefully this group will be fine as well.
And next time, I know to do it differently, well I think next time, I'm letting a broody raise the chicks. This was a lot of work, and it's still not over, integration has yet to be finalized.
Anyway, thanks for being there...
Sue

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Hi! Thought I'd chime in with my experience. I've fed non medicated chick starter from the 2015 and I've been raising chicks well, almost non-stop since then too, without issue.

Last August I had some eggs I was incubating and I also had a few broodies. We had an overnight stay for a medical appointment, and everything was being left to our kid while we were away. The one broody was wonderful and she'd take every chick I gave her so I gave her the newly hatched chicks I had in the house and from the silly broody who wouldn't stop brooding. They had feed and water in an xtra large kennel. Some chicks had been exposed to the outdoors...a few had not. Everything was great when we returned the next day. I moved her and the chicks into the large brooder that I'd been using for the incubated chicks...for a day or so because went straight back to combining. I moved her out with her first couple of chicks when I moved more chicks that had hatched out to the brooder.

Fast forward...a chick didn't look good one morning...by dinner it was dead. By my understanding...by using the broody, it introduced coccidi to the first chicks. She and those chicks exposed it to the brooder. I took her out, but the process had already begun. Those first chicks became massive coccidi producers which in turn got shed to every other chick I introduced to the brooder. It overwhelmed their systems and I began losing chicks. The particular Eimeria strain my chickens carry doesn't show blood. It kills them very swiftly. Now remember, I'd been using this brooder for chicks a long time before this happened...so you can imagine my surprise. I normally introduce partially grown chicks to the flock and I've never had an issue with that.

From what I understand, medicated feed is specifically using a lower dose so the chicks can be exposed to coccidi which in turn gives them a chance to build resistance against the coccidi without dying or experiencing as much damage and scarring internally as being exposed without medicated feed. But that's only if good husbandry techniques are employed along with the use of the medicated feed. Using medicated feed doesn't compensate for overcrowded, stressed chicks in a dirty environment.

In my case, after bringing chicks to the vet...I was instructed to give the max dose of Amprolium for a specific amount of time. At this time the feed I had been using was no longer available. I tried two new different brands of chick starters...but I was still plagued with problems that presented as vitamin deficiencies like twisting faces/beaks, curled toes, leg issues. Not all the chicks showed these issues...but more than I'd like since this is not something I've dealt with prior.

Now, is it the feed? Or did the coccidi do that much damage that these poor birds were damaged beyond repair and couldn't absorb the proper nutrients due to scarring? I don't know...yet. I'm still feeling the fallout from this as I still have these birds.

I'm on my third chick starter; all the chickens actually like it (a first) and it's fine enough crumbles for the tiniest of my birds. I have a couple of chicks on it now and I will be converting to medicated once I move them out to coop.

Do I like the thought of using medicated starter? No, I do not. I don't like the idea of inhibiting the thiamine production in the chicks. But, now I view it as a tool to hopefully produce a premium chicken who "hopefully" doesn't suffer from unnecessary scarring and damage to their intestines. I'm hoping I'm giving my chickens a better start that will affect the rest of their lives in a positive direction.

My mind may change as this year unfolds and as I learn more how things turn out for my chicks this year. This is an ongoing learning experience for me. I didn't mean for this to turn into a novel...lol. But I did want to give my experience. Perhaps my experience can help someone else.

Food for thought...if a breeder sends exposed-to-coccidi chicks home with a new buyer, and that buyer puts the chicks in a brooder where they will closely encounter each other...should we be suggesting to them to use non-medicated starter? I think they "may" lose some chicks. I think we'd all hate for that to happen. Now that I understand the whole process better...my thoughts have evolved. I certainly don't want to see this happen to someone else if it can be prevented.

 

[jeria]

Interesting thread. I don't have chicks yet hoping within the next couple weeks-- as I ramped up my plan. I bought medicated feed on the advice of the book A Chicken in Every Yard. As a newbie I think I will go ahead and use it this time, not open so I could take it back. Then maybe next time I will try the non-medicated. Probably going to switch to organic layer feed when they are old enough.

 

[speckledhen]

I need to chime in about the sudden deaths with no blood. There are 9 named types of cocci, however, they are mutating and becoming more virulent. Medicated feed can't do anything for those. If you see a lethargic chick in that age range, yes, treat for coccidiosis and use a slightly higher dose than recommended.

A friend had a necropsy done on chicks that had about passed the danger zone for cocci, same thing, no bloody poop, lethargy and dead, one by one. The necropsy showed a mutated form of coccidiosis that was not native to the state, it was actually passed from the PARENTS through the egg to the chick and it meant she had to treat with a DOUBLE strength of Corid than for normal cocci.

 

[DwayneNLiz]

agreed, also need to know that there are different strains of cocci that affect different parts of the digestive tract:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/omafra_partn...a/Monitoring-for-success---Lesion-Scoring.asp

 

[speckledhen]

Very true. Unless there has been testing, we don't usually know which type we have on our soil, but in any case, Corid will most always fix it, albeit, the more virulent types need a higher dose of it. When I have to use it, I almost always give at least 50% more than it calls for in a gallon, just in case. Since it's only for 5 days, it's not a problem to do that.


Some folks feel they must use the medicated and you can if you want, of course. But, when I did that all the time early on in my chicken keeping career, while raising chicks in a brooder, I was still forced to treat them for coccidiosis, living in a humid environment. So, it seemed prudent to stop that feed and just use the Corid as needed, which has worked out much better.

 

[speckledhen]

@Wickedchicken6 said

I tried two new different brands of chick starters...but I was still plagued with problems that presented as vitamin deficiencies like twisting faces/beaks, curled toes, leg issues. Not all the chicks showed these issues...but more than I'd like since this is not something I've dealt with prior.

I'm not sure what was going on there, but some of that sounds more genetic than vitamin deficiency. What breed were they? I know some are more prone to vitamin issues than others and genetic problems than others, like Silkies. And EEs and Ameraucanas have more instances of crossbeak than other breeds, I've found as well.

But, I've used the same chick starter for years, Tucker Milling with animal protein. Never had any issues I felt were related to the feed. I do believe that vegetarian feeds are more problematic for chickens who are penned 24/7 and can't get access to green forage and bugs/mice/lizards, etc.

 

[casportpony]

A friend of mine has been doing his own fecals on his chickens, guineas, and peafowl, and he has found that Corid is not very effective with the strains he has on his property, so he uses sulfadimethoxine (Albon, DiMeth Ox, etc.) now. He also tried sulfamethazine (Sulmet, SMZ 454, etc), but it wasn't as effective as sulfadimethoxine.

There is an article about using a sulfa and amprolium together... Let me see if I can find that!

 

[DwayneNLiz]

@casportpony you should check out this site
http://www.uoguelph.ca/omafra_partnership/ktt/en/johnbarta/Homepage.asp
some neat stuff they found in their study