Medicated vs Non-Medicated Feed

[CooksCritters]

Will do! Thank you so much casportpony! You've been so much help!

 

[casportpony]

Will do! Thank you so much casportpony! You've been so much help!

Rather than try to explain to my peachick buyers what feed they should buy, I just give them a bag w/label and about 5 pounds of feed and send them on their way. That way they can take the bag to their local store and hopefully cross match it.

 

[KsKingBee]

Here are the links:

Thanks for sharing those links, I lost them,,,

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

I always start my chicks on medicated chick feed. The reason being, is to protect them against coccidiosis when they join in with a pre-existing flock. Then, everyone is switched to regular chick feed to prevent them from eating layer feed before they are mature and dying from kidney failure.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

I need to chime in about the sudden deaths with no blood. There are 9 named types of cocci, however, they are mutating and becoming more virulent. Medicated feed can't do anything for those. If you see a lethargic chick in that age range, yes, treat for coccidiosis and use a slightly higher dose than recommended.

A friend had a necropsy done on chicks that had about passed the danger zone for cocci, same thing, no bloody poop, lethargy and dead, one by one. The necropsy showed a mutated form of coccidiosis that was not native to the state, it was actually passed from the PARENTS through the egg to the chick and it meant she had to treat with a DOUBLE strength of Corid than for normal cocci.

Good info and good to know. Mutation is a pain in the backside.

My chicks got a two treatments of .24%...the max dose after consulting the vet after the first treatment about the issues I was having.

 

[speckledhen]

I always start my chicks on medicated chick feed. The reason being, is to protect them against coccidiosis when they join in with a pre-existing flock. Then, everyone is switched to regular chick feed to prevent them from eating layer feed before they are mature and dying from kidney failure.

Of course, that is why everyone who uses medicated feed does so, to protect against cocci, however, just be warned that it is often ineffective for that purpose. I want people to realize this because some may see normal signs of coccidiosis yet, because they have been feeding medicated feed, erroneously believe that is cannot be cocci and therefore, they don't treat the chicks for it and lose them.
Medicated feed never protected mine from cocci so I quit using it and let their natural immune systems do it for them, putting dirt in the brooder from the get-go, which works far better than any medication ever could.

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

I haven't lost a chick to cocci yet. I understand your position. I am for as much natural ideas as I can reasonably afford. However, just like pets need vaccinations, I use it only as a preventative measure, prior to introduction to an existing flock.

 

[speckledhen]

I haven't lost a chick to cocci yet. I understand your position. I am for as much natural ideas as I can reasonably afford. However, just like pets need vaccinations, I use it only as a preventative measure, prior to introduction to an existing flock.

To clarify, I have never actually lost a chick to cocci, though when I was using medicated feed years ago, I had to treat them over and over again for it. What I think for the most part is if folks are not seeing cocci in their chicks, it is less about the medicated feed than about their environment. I mean you would not know it was the feed preventing it unless you raised up a bunch of chicks on non-med feed to see the difference. That is what I am saying. Saying the feed is preventing cocci may not really be true at all if you've never raised them without it to compare. Just offering that up for your consideration because I see over and over again it being stated that someone's chicks never got cocci because they feed medicated and I honestly believe that is not true, not from my experience.

Again, broodies raising chicks are less likely to have cocci affect those chicks and it definitely has nothing to do with the feed. I found this out quite by accident and when I began to research why that was, I read that the chicks pecking in mom's poop, her already being immune to it, was almost like an inoculation against it. And people who let broodies raise chicks tend to have them out on dirt earlier. They have a heater going out with them so if they become chilly, mom settles down and they go under so they can be out almost from the beginning, barring it being in the middle of winter.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

@Wickedchicken6 said


I'm not sure what was going on there, but some of that sounds more genetic than vitamin deficiency. What breed were they? I know some are more prone to vitamin issues than others and genetic problems than others, like Silkies. And EEs and Ameraucanas have more instances of crossbeak than other breeds, I've found as well.

But, I've used the same chick starter for years, Tucker Milling with animal protein. Never had any issues I felt were related to the feed. I do believe that vegetarian feeds are more problematic for chickens who are penned 24/7 and can't get access to green forage and bugs/mice/lizards, etc.

I am not sure what was going on either...but this year should help sort things out.

If these were new-to-me chickens, then yes...genetic issues would be foremost in my mind. The thing is, I've been breeding these same chickens from 2015 with no genetic faults showing up. I don't believe in breeding stock with genetic faults; purebred or cross bred. I have a line of buff Silkie crosses that were axed from production when a couple roosters showed wry neck tendencies. I've kept them and they haven't shown anything since. They're still not acceptable for breeding.

I did consult the vet regarding the second treatment and issues. He seconded the vitamins for deficiency. He's already been through a cleanup on the genetics of my sheep with me...lol. (Poor guy!)

The breeds out there are OEGBs, EEs, silkie crosses (not the buffs) Marans whatever else is under that EE façade. Not crossbeaks...twisting faces.

Here's the wee little girl. That's today. She wasn't hatched like this. She's better than she was last fall. She stayed in the house with some of her other cohorts and they got vitamins all winter. The LF don't look anywhere as good. I trimmed her beak after this pic so it doesn't interfere with her eating. (She won't be breeding stock, she's just a pet...and for eggs)

The feed company the chicks were initially switched to, I bought the feed right from the mill so it won't be old stock like the stuff lingering at an end of the line feed store. It's a huge company, right across Canada. This mill is in our closest city.

The second feed was from a local feed store and it got fed to chicks hatched at the very end of the year that hadn't been exposed...I had forgotten about that. It's feed I couldn't use anyway, it was medicated with monensin which is toxic to Guineas. And I have guineas...lol. The keets hatch out with my chicks. Below are the chicks that were on second feed. All the chicks were fine hatching out, including the ones below.


The flock free ranges spring-fall and they have access to several acres. Here's a pic of a few of the girls earlier this spring.


I realize that starter "should" be a complete feed. And that there shouldn't be problems. I'm keeping an open mind. The starter I'm using now doesn't have animal protein. But the flock get fed enough eggs and do enough foraging outside to compensate for that.

 

[speckledhen]

That is very odd, indeed! That many vitamin deficiencies is quite unusual, IMO, though. You say you've been breeding them since 2015, but that is still a relatively short time. I still find that skeletal malformations are more common in the EEs and Ameraucanas for some weird reason, including crossbeak. Derperella of the famous thread on here has a twisted sort of face, doesn't she? I see all the photos are missing from that thread, at least the early ones are. She was a Salmon Faverolles, though, with a twisted face, as I recall. Genes can "float" and show up generations later, like wry tail or dwarfism, so hard to say if it's genetic or vitamin deficiency. I see people feeding their birds the most inadequate diets and theirs do not show stuff like you're seeing with yours, which is why a vitamin issue seems sort of weird, but I guess anything is possible.
As for your girl not behing hatched like that, it's still possible that it is genetic. Crossbeak is genetic, but it can be progressive, not noticeable at the beginning and becoming progressively worse. I've seen it here with some early Ameraucanas I had. I had to cull a 3 month old cockerel who was otherwise gorgeous because he had a crossed beak that was not at all noticeable as a chick or I would definitely not allowed him to continue that long.