Miconazole dosing question

[awagnon]

I need to treat a couple of my hens for Vent Gleet. I read a protocol here for treatment to follow. I have mixed up some egg (a guarantee they will eat this stuff as of course it's the picky ones who have it), calcium tabs (these girls are just now coming back online & laying thin shelled eggs after a molt), and the miconazole cream. I accidently mixed in an INCH of cream into each hen's 'treat'. I REALLY have to accept that as I am older, my memory isn't 100% truthful with me. lol When I re-read the post it says to give them a 1/2" ribbon of cream twice a day. ugh!

Will giving them this dosage the first day make them sick? Don't want to add to their stress as they already don't feel 100%. Will be adding ACV to their water each day, as well as giving them some layer feed mash with a probiotic cap each morning for each one.

Anything else I should do besides the spa soak and blow out treatment?

 

[azygous]

I've tried a number of treatments for vent gleet over the years, and have found that it's an extremely difficult thing to get rid of. Miconazole is mostly ineffective. The standard has been nystatin, which requires a prescription, but even that fails most of the time, at least in my experience.

What does work is Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). This kills the yeast and also flushes it out of the system. But to administer it effectively, you need to tube it into the chicken.

You can buy a tubing kit from your vet or order one here. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095J7PFV..._csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&tag=backy-20

The solution is one teaspoon Epsom salts in one-half cup warm water tubed twice a day for three consecutive days.

If you wish to do this, I will give you instructions for your first time.

 

[awagnon]

I've tried a number of treatments for vent gleet over the years, and have found that it's an extremely difficult thing to get rid of. Miconazole is mostly ineffective. The standard has been nystatin, which requires a prescription, but even that fails most of the time, at least in my experience.

What does work is Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). This kills the yeast and also flushes it out of the system. But to administer it effectively, you need to tube it into the chicken.

You can buy a tubing kit from your vet or order one here. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095J7PFV..._csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&tag=backy-20

The solution is one teaspoon Epsom salts in one-half cup warm water tubed twice a day for three consecutive days.

If you wish to do this, I will give you instructions for your first time.

Ugh. Not good news to hear, but thanks for the response. Not sure I am up to the tubing, but may have to if it comes to that. She's not hard to handle, but not my most cooperative girl, of course. I may just recrate her and offer this ES water ONLY to see if she will drink it on her own. I really don't want to stress her out anymore since she's already feeling poorly. If not, I guess I will have to get the equipment and go the unpleasant route. So the 1/2 cup of ES water won't over fill her crop? I am assuming she gets this all at once each time.

 

[azygous]

Yes, it should fill the crop. Most crops can handle the half a cup. Bantams will need it adjusted downward as would young pullets. Tubing a chicken is like learning any new task - once you've mastered it, it's then a tool that you will find makes life much more convenient.

 

[awagnon]

Yes, it should fill the crop. Most crops can handle the half a cup. Bantams will need it adjusted downward as would young pullets. Tubing a chicken is like learning any new task - once you've mastered it, it's then a tool that you will find makes life much more convenient.

is there any after affects I should be aware of after giving this to her?

 

[azygous]

It's like you taking a laxative. It's going to be a relief for her. I've done this flush and the patient was actually energized following each treatment. Chickens, in my experience, tolerate it very well.

 

[CrimsonIdol]

Yes, it should fill the crop. Most crops can handle the half a cup. Bantams will need it adjusted downward as would young pullets. Tubing a chicken is like learning any new task - once you've mastered it, it's then a tool that you will find makes life much more convenient.

So here's a question...

I got nystatin to treat sour crop because my wife didn't want me "doing what idiots on the internet say to do" and feeding her Monistat 7. So a vet came out and wouldn't give us anything - told me to keep doing what I was doing, which was feeding her eggs. First time I fed her crumbles the crop blew up again. Anywho - now that I have nystatin powder, the dose is huge - 20ml of solution twice a day. I have now read that this stuff doesn't work if I mix it in her feed with water? It has to physically come in contact? So am I correct that the only way to properly administered nystatin to fix sour crop is via tubing directly into the crop?

Should I just ignore my wife and feed the bird monistat 7 cream?

Today was first dose and she wouldn't drink it from her water, so my idea was to mix it with tomatoes since that's mostly water. That sort of worked but she left a lot of juice/medicine at the bottom of the bowl.

My next idea was to create the potion with the ratio on the label, then soak crumbles in it and feed that to her, since she that's what she's dying for right now. She's burnt out on scrambled eggs and tomatoes.


Anyway, is that all dumb? Do I need to tube the nystatin or just use monistat? Can I mix nystatin and monistat?


Thanks!

 

[azygous]

Many drugs have legitimate off label uses. Just because a med is used to treat a yeast infection in the private parts of a woman doesn't mean it's not incredibly useful in treating the exact same variety of yeast in a hen's crop. I've used both miconazole (Monistat) and Nystatin, and miconazole is much more effective in treating crop yeast. Much easier to obtain, too. Cheaper, too.

If you believe the yeast has infected the hen's digestive system beyond the crop, tubing Nystatin would be more effective than just the miconazole. Yes, you can use both together if you like.

 

[CharlieBaby]

Hi @azygous. I'm adding my questions here because they relate to what you and others have commented in the thread. Three of my girls have persistent vent gleet. One has developed additional issues (very hard distended abdomen, squishy crop, not laying, lethargic), while the other two seem okay minus sticky bums.

A fecal test this week reported "a fair amount of yeast, both 'budding' and 'non-budding'. This indicates multiple stages of development of yeast." Acidified copper sulfate in the drinking water a few weeks ago was ineffective. We are on day three of miconazole with no improvement. I am also bathing and blowing feathers dry.

I'm thinking of trying Epsom salt tube feeding and giving both nystatin and miconazole. I'm not sure if the Epsom tubing is a good idea for my girl who has the abdominal swelling, although her the issue could be yeast-related and she's the most in need.

1. Would you mind detailing how to tube feed Epsom salts, as you mentioned above (post #2)?

2. Can the oral Epsom tubing be done any time of day? Should food be withheld for a brief period of time? Is it okay to give when crop is sour or slow to empty?

3. Do you have dosing recommendations when combining miconazole and nystatin for vent gleet?

4. Can powdered nystatin be mixed with water or miconazole cream? Can I deliver the powder in capsules?

5. Can nystatin and miconazole be combined with an antibiotic in extreme cases where bacterial infection is present alongside vent gleet?

6. Have you seen advanced vent gleet cause or trigger reproductive ailments such as EYP, salpingitis, or egg binding?

7. Is an Epsom salt enema or any enema ever a good idea in cases of vent gleet and EYP, salpingitis, or egg binding?

Thank you!

Edit: I started a new thread with specifics about my particularly sick hen: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-swollen-abdomen-straining-lethargic.1657233/. I think my questions above still pertain to this thread and persistent vent gleet.

 

[azygous]

1. Would you mind detailing how to tube feed Epsom salts, as you mentioned above (post #2)?
Tube feeding a chicken is about the safest most fool-proof things a chicken keeper can do. There is pretty nearly nothing that can go wrong. Even a child can do it, and this past spring, two kids on this forum successfully saved the lives of several hens in their flock by tubing a life-saving solution over three days.

First, obtain the small animal kit from a vet or from Amazon. You can fashion your own from oxygen tubing or aquarium tubing. You would need to find an oral syringe to fit the tubing that holds about one to two ounces. A slender one millimeter syringe is too small to do much good.

Next, cut the bottom off at around nine or ten inches to make it easier to manage. You will prepare a solution of raw egg, a little yogurt, maybe a little soy protein powder and enough warm water to make it flow through a tube. I add a squirt of poultry vitamins such as Poultry Nutri-drench. Or you can buy baby bird formula from a pet store. This is to feed a weak or starving chicken. Other uses would be to give electrolytes to a shock victim or a flush solution to an impacted chicken. For an average chicken, about half a cup of solution will be how much to tube in.

Now, what most people fear most - the part where you insert the tube. But this is very easy as the chicken has a direct channel going from the right side of the throat right into their crop, by-passing the airway so there is zero chance of aspiration.

After wrapping my chicken securely in a towel to confine wings, I hold my chicken on a work bench with my weak arm. With that hand I pry open the beak holding it open, and with my strong hand, I insert the tube in her right side of the beak, going slightly under the right side of the tongue. This channels the tube right into the esophagus which goes directly into the crop. You can see this in the photo below, only it will be the tube and not the syringe.

I measure the tube from the beak to the bottom of the chicken's crop and make a mark so I'll know when the tube has reached the lower part of the crop. The first time if you hit the wrong hole your chicken will start to cough. It's okay, no harm, just back out and try again. Once the tube is in, the chicken will be calm and comfortable. Then you can begin feeding. It feels pleasant to the chicken, and most are very cooperative throughout the process.

If the chicken struggles and bucks all of a sudden, it's not because of anything you did. They get bored and tired of the process like a toddler would. Pause until the chicken settles down again and finish. The whole process takes no more than five minutes. Each time you do it, it gets easier and quicker.

Learning this can save the life of your chicken, and it can save you so much time and frustration. And it's very, very safe. Anyone can do it.


2. Can the oral Epsom tubing be done any time of day? Should food be withheld for a brief period of time? Is it okay to give when crop is sour or slow to empty?
Tube the solution before the chicken fills her crop full. You can tube any time during the day, but morning and late afternoon are best.

3. Do you have dosing recommendations when combining miconazole and nystatin for vent gleet?
If you have the Medistatin, it is formulated to go into the drinking water. If you have Nystatin, follow the dosing instructions that came with it.

4. Can powdered nystatin be mixed with water or miconazole cream? Can I deliver the powder in capsules?
Yes.

5. Can nystatin and miconazole be combined with an antibiotic in extreme cases where bacterial infection is present alongside vent gleet?
Yes, you can, but do not use any antibiotic with "cillin" in the name as it will aggravate the yeast.

6. Have you seen advanced vent gleet cause or trigger reproductive ailments such as EYP, salpingitis, or egg binding?
I have not seen this.

7. Is an Epsom salt enema or any enema ever a good idea in cases of vent gleet and EYP, salpingitis, or egg binding?
Absolutely not. Enemas can force bacteria up into the reproductive tract and cause a hard to treat infection.