Missouri folks- regarding avian influenza, are we a test out state?

[Folly's place]

My birds are now totally inside their roofed coop and run, and will be for who knows how long. And the boots and shoes worn in the coop are not worn anywhere else! We have many wild geese here every year, who roam where our chickens would also be if they were free ranging.
This is not how we want to start over with new chickens! Trying our best to protect our flock, and hope it goes away as soon as possible, when ever that is.
Mary

 

[Crs1]

It’s in SE Missouri. 240,000 meat birds. Wish I could put the link up but I think I found it at the aphis.USDA.gov under newsroom

 

[jBabychickn]

I do understand, and I did answer that.

They can.

Will they? Probably not.

Is it within the police powers of the State to do so? Yes. Yes it is.

Most likely, if your flock is tested, and one is infected, all will be culled.

Most likely, if you are close to an infected flock, but your flock tests clean, none of your birds will be culled.

But if the State decides that testing is too expensive, too time consuming, or simply inconvenient, and the Ag Commisioner (or whomever the power is designated to) wants to declare an area around an infected bird, and cull everything in range? Yes, they can do that.

Clear enough for you?

If you want to look at the Statutes (I'm not going to argue with you, I'm not a lawyer, just offering the practical effect of similar statutes nationally, and the history of their use), you want to read Missouri Revised Statute, Title XVII, Chapter 267.560 et seq.

Gaw… Is it just me, or is everyone else finding more and more rude responses on BYC lately? All this… just because @It_is_I_Rae needed clarifying

Hmmmm

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Gaw… Is it just me, or is everyone else finding more and more rude responses on BYC lately? All this… just because @It_is_I_Rae needed clarifying

Hmmmm

IIIR wanted reassurances none of us could honestly provide, and insisted on arguing a moral point later, not a legal one, one based on historic practice, or a practical one.

And just because it's within their power to do so doesn't mean it's good or fair. I and other people actually taking biosecurity seriously shouldn't have to suffer because of the government's laziness. And in the end if this were to happen, no amount of compensation money would make it okay because these are my pets we're talking about.

If you have a problem with my tone, I suggest you block me. Its more effective than drive-by comments about percieved rudeness in a series of posts by someone who cared enough to attempt to honestly answer the questions posed.

 

[luckycluk]

No- I don't don't you understand. I understand culling if one or more of my birds is infected. If they were infected with avian influenza then culling would be merciful. If they were infected they were going to die anyway.That is not what I'm trying to stop. What I'm worried about is them being culled anyway despite being locked down and uninfected just because they're within like 6 miles of a confirmed case.

I totally agree with you. I could understand if the birds were tested and infected but just to coldly, heartlessly cull over A 100 animals. They acted like a heartless bunch of government butchers that did not care. In the right situation I would agree but this situation was handeled totally wrong. What they are accomplishing is convincing people to take care of things their selves and not report if they have sick birds. The opposite of what they should want to do. It’s the governments own fault

 

[luckycluk]

Gaw… Is it just me, or is everyone else finding more and more rude responses on BYC lately? All this… just because @It_is_I_Rae needed clarifying

Hmmmm

Yes, it is becoming common. If you have been given a rude response, noticed someone else is being talked down to , please push the report button. The only way the monitored can correct anything is if they are made aware. That way we can keep BYC A awesome site

 

[ChicFil- A]

I was going to call the state poultry health program about this but I wanted to know if someone else has already called and got the information first because I'd rather not make a phone call if I don't have to. I know avian flu has not been found here yet but I'm trying to learn all I can in advance to keep my girls safe. I know in some states if you are in a cull zone the state will come in and cull your flock even if they are locked down and uninfected and I'm terrified of that so I need to know what my options are. Are we a test out state? If it comes to this and I end up being in a cull zone, can I demand testing first so that if it comes back negative they leave my birds alone? They're locked down and have not been anywhere near any other birds, wild or domesticated since early december (they hadn't been out of the coop before the bird flu outbreak anyway because of weather and hawks) and they will not be going anywhere outside of their coop until I completely bird proof and disinfect their run. I have coop only shoes and clothes that I do not wear outside of the property. There is no way they could infect or be infected by other birds. I'd be devastated if after all I've done to protect them from this virus the state comes in and destroys them anyway.

Following

 

[ChicFil- A]

I do understand, and I did answer that.

They can.

Will they? Probably not.

Is it within the police powers of the State to do so? Yes. Yes it is.

Most likely, if your flock is tested, and one is infected, all will be culled.

Most likely, if you are close to an infected flock, but your flock tests clean, none of your birds will be culled.

But if the State decides that testing is too expensive, too time consuming, or simply inconvenient, and the Ag Commisioner (or whomever the power is designated to) wants to declare an area around an infected bird, and cull everything in range? Yes, they can do that.

Clear enough for you?

If you want to look at the Statutes (I'm not going to argue with you, I'm not a lawyer, just offering the practical effect of similar statutes nationally, and the history of their use), you want to read Missouri Revised Statute, Title XVII, Chapter 267.560 et seq.

It sounds a lot like China when families homes windows and doors were nailed shut because they would not comply. I’m hoping that never happens to us.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

It sounds a lot like China when families homes windows and doors were nailed shut because they would not comply. I’m hoping that never happens to us.

We've done it here, read your history. Most of the law of quarantine in this country comes from the 1800s. Forced quarantine of the exposed was the most scientific option. In some cases, it still is. Though of course the history of the use of quarantine is also replete with abuses - as with all use of Gov't power.

Here's a newspaper article summing up some commonly known examples

 

[Shadrach]

Something that all chickens keepers should bear in mind.
Bird Flu is not going to go away. There is no lock the birds up today and they'll be okay to come out tomorrow option. Bird Flu, like Covid is here to stay. Get used to the idea.

Like Covid, not every creature that contracts the disease dies. It does, from what I have read have a higher mortality rate but again as far as I've read, nobody has studied the sickness and death rate enough to give a reasonable estimate of how many that contract the disease die from it.

In the UK there is a rather interesting problem. On the one hand we have this:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...f-practice-welfare-of-laying-hens-pullets.pdf

And on the other hand there is this regarding Bird Flu.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bird-flu-avian-influenza-housing-your-birds-safely

You can't comply with them both.

Anyone remember the outrage when Sweden didn't lock their population down because of Covid?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

And this is for the UK who did enforce lockdowns.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

So, what is the intention of the Bird Flu restrictions? The intention is to minimize the direct and indirect contact with any birds that may be carrying the disease.
There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.
Some chicken keepers I know who do not have suitable coops for long term confinement have contacted DFRA who are aware of this possibility and have proposed to DEFRA an arrangement that will achieve the same, or better disease prevention than the lockdown approach and DEFRA has accepted this arrangements.

As a keeper of chickens it's your responsibility to ensure thhe welfare of your birds and there are a great many other factors that effect their health apart from avoiding Bird Flu. We have discovered this with the measures used in an attempt to halt the spread of Covid and the human population.