MJ's little flock

[RoyalChick]

Non-graded courses have two grades: pass and fail. To pass, students simply have to do everything - we do not evaluate how well something is done, simply that it is indeed done.

However, around half the students fail to achieve that and get a fail. As the course is non-graded, the budget says the feedback is in the grade, so we don't spend any time typing the things students didn't do, we simply expect them to be able to review their work and the task descriptions and find the parts they missed for themselves. Many of the complaints have been about 'lack of feedback'.

So it's a very easy course to pass. But it's also a very easy course to fail. Language proficiency is key. If people can't (or won't) read the tasks they inevitably overlook some of them. Even the most patient of 'friends/mates/cousin who took the course last year' can't talk a non-reader through ALL the tasks in the course.

The course is core in the IT programs and elective in the innovation and entrepreneurship business program. 90+% of the cohort are IT students. So there's very little self-selection into the course in the way that American uni students might be used to. More's the pity in my view. I would love it if students had a wider range of courses to choose from in their degrees.

Now I understand.

 

[Ribh]

@Ribh, wrt your citations, are you using EndNote or something similar?

I have no idea what end note is. It's my in text citations giving all the trouble. I learnt originally to number my quote & put author, text, etc at the bottom of the page but now it's author & page number in brackets after the quote unless the author has already been named. And then there's the internet...

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Non-graded courses have two grades: pass and fail. To pass, students simply have to do everything - we do not evaluate how well something is done, simply that it is indeed done.

However, around half the students fail to achieve that and get a fail. As the course is non-graded, the budget says the feedback is in the grade, so we don't spend any time typing the things students didn't do, we simply expect them to be able to review their work and the task descriptions and find the parts they missed for themselves. Many of the complaints have been about 'lack of feedback'.

So it's a very easy course to pass. But it's also a very easy course to fail. Language proficiency is key. If people can't (or won't) read the tasks they inevitably overlook some of them. Even the most patient of 'friends/mates/cousin who took the course last year' can't talk a non-reader through ALL the tasks in the course.

The course is core in the IT programs and elective in the innovation and entrepreneurship business program. 90+% of the cohort are IT students. So there's very little self-selection into the course in the way that American uni students might be used to. More's the pity in my view. I would love it if students had a wider range of courses to choose from in their degrees.

I am attempting to grasp the concept of failing a pass/fail course where you basically just have to check things off a list, but

 

[BDutch]

I am attempting to grasp the concept of failing a pass/fail course where you basically just have to check things off a list, but

I suppose you have to do things too.

Hope things get better for you soon MJ. Here the teachers complain about the nowadays students too. Mostly bc they are distracted way too much by their phones and whatnot is going on, on the (un)socials .

 

[MaryJanet]

I have no idea what end note is. It's my in text citations giving all the trouble. I learnt originally to number my quote & put author, text, etc at the bottom of the page but now it's author & page number in brackets after the quote unless the author has already been named. And then there's the internet...

EndNote is a software that you can add on to Word and it does all that reference formatting for you. Your librarians can probably help you get it and start using it, if you want to give it a try.

 

[MaryJanet]

I am attempting to grasp the concept of failing a pass/fail course where you basically just have to check things off a list, but

You understand my frustration when such a simple concept results in students being abusive towards staff instead of checking themselves.

 

[Ribh]

EndNote is a software that you can add on to Word and it does all that reference formatting for you. Your librarians can probably help you get it and start using it, if you want to give it a try.

thank you.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

You understand my frustration when such a simple concept results in students being abusive towards staff instead of checking themselves.

I wonder if there could be the option of taking the class for either a letter grade or pass/fail. Those who want to actually develop their skills could do so for graded work (maybe with an extra lab session), and those who are taking it for *waves hands* could do the pass/fail as now. Maybe some of them would get inspired!

 

[MaryJanet]

I wonder if there could be the option of taking the class for either a letter grade or pass/fail. Those who want to actually develop their skills could do so for graded work (maybe with an extra lab session), and those who are taking it for *waves hands* could do the pass/fail as now. Maybe some of them would get inspired!

It's not easy to make such a change. We have to deliver the accredited program. Last year we re-accredited with the external accrediting agency (which also happens to be the professional society - a couple of years ago I was seconded to the board that oversees accreditation throughout Oceania). Re-accrediting provided the opportunity for change, so the swathe of changes I mentioned a few posts back were tabled and are in the newly accredited suite of programs. These are the changes I'm implementing at present. One of many changes is the course reverting to a graded assessment policy. Another is the course no longer being intensive (thus removing the most problematic assessment with a simpler format). There are a bunch of operational changes afoot too. No time to explain further.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

It's not easy to make such a change. We have to deliver the accredited program. Last year we re-accredited with the external accrediting agency (which also happens to be the professional society - a couple of years ago I was seconded to the board that oversees accreditation throughout Oceania). Re-accrediting provided the opportunity for change, so the swathe of changes I mentioned a few posts back were tabled and are in the newly accredited suite of programs. These are the changes I'm implementing at present. One of many changes is the course reverting to a graded assessment policy. Another is the course no longer being intensive (thus removing the most problematic assessment with a simpler format). There are a bunch of operational changes afoot too. No time to explain further.

I’m glad to read that it’s being dealt with. Seems like a bit of a no-win situation currently.