More sick birds. *Necropsy Report!* (Now with IC, swollen eye...)

[Minx]

Quote:
Is it safe to eat the eggs of chickens infected with this disease? The information about the disease is so limited.

I was wondering the same thing. Carolina if it is not safe to eat the eggs that will be the last straw for me with Rich Chicken Guy. We will have to kidnap his pet turkey and hold it for ransom. I don't know what the ransom should be, nothing can really replace all of the birds I've lost.

un

Really sorry to here the outcome

There is no cure for Avian Leukosis. The bacteria that he says was found are actually found in healthy chickies as part of the bacteria groups that are ever present. The bacteria would have multiplied and become a problem due to the birds being stressed from illness and their little bodies cant fight it off therefore becoming a problem. The bacterias stated are pathogens so are the bacterias expected with viruses that cause lesions/tumours.

As Avian Leukosis can be passed from bird to bird if you keep your original flock and add more that are free from it, they will get it as it is multiple viruses that cause AL.

Have no idea if it it was the coccidiosis that would have been the primary vector but I dont think it matters to the overall outcome.

Definitely speak to the man at the lab and I would just go with whatever he suggests. I would also be interested to know if the eggs are still ok to eat ?? Although I would imafine that egg production would be poor anyway and quality would suffer also ??

 

[Andora]

What else would I do with my flock? There's no way I could cull them all, they are pets.

From the limited research I've done tonight, I've read that this virus is present in most flocks but some birds are bred to be immune...? If I keep my flock and they stay healthy, will they just fight off the virus and not all die? Did they die because they were down from cocci? The strange thing is, three of us got birds from this guy and mine are the only ones rapidly dying off. My friend has never had any of her's die. The other girl had one bird die and I think one might be sick, and she has quite a few more birds than I do.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much of a death sentence this is for my chicken future. What options do I have? None really, right? Either get rid of all my birds and start fresh or...? Keep them and love them and hope they don't all develop tumors and die and pray they lay eggs and that I can safely eat them?

 

[Andora]

I just did a lot of research within Google books, and I learned some interesting things. (I also earned a headache...) If Avian Leukosis is a retrovirus, do you think it would benefit my birds to regularly give them a supplement that is supposed to slow the spread of retroviruses? Olive Leaf Extract...

"In the case of retroviruses, olive leaf extract is able to neutralize the production of transcriptase (a protease), which is essential for enabling retroviruses such as HIV to alter the RNA of a healthy cell."

The researchers credit a number of unique properties possessed by the olive leaf compound for the broad killing power:

* An ability to interfere with critical amino acid production essential for viruses.
* An ability to contain viral infection and/or spread by inactivating viruses or by preventing virus shedding, budding or assembly at the cell membrane.
* The ability to directly penetrate infected cells and stop viral replication.
* In the case of retroviruses, it is able to neutralize the production of reverse transcriptase and protease. These enzymes are essential for a retrovirus, such as HIV, to alter the RNA of a healthy cell.
* It can stimulate phagocytosis, an immune system response in which cells ingest harmful microorganisms and foreign matter.

The research suggests that this may be a "true anti-viral" compound because it appears to selectively block an entire virus-specific system in the infected host. It thus appears to offer healing effects not addressed by pharmaceutical antibiotics.

From here and here:
http://www.hepatitiscfree.com/olive_leaf_book.htm
http://www.the-health-gazette.com/health-gazette-blog/alternative-medicine/natural-antibiotics

The biggest question is how safe OLE is for chickens and the dosage I could give them. I tried to google it, but I just kept coming up with recipes for olive oil and chicken.

I regularly use Grapefruit Seed Extract, which is supposed to have antiviral properties. I put 10 drops in their 2 gallon waterer. It hasn't made much difference, but I haven't been putting it in their water all the time so maybe that's why? The OLE sounds more promising.

 

[Minx]

Hi Andora

If you are keeping your chickies as pets then I would go for it with the OLE. Didnt know anything about it until you said and have been having a read .. it sounds a good one to try for sure.

Are you going to carry on with the antibiotics for now because it would be good to give your hens some live yoghurt to help balance the gut flora before starting anything new. Once they have finished their course, then I would stop with everything else and just try one thing at a time (for elimination purposes). To much medication of any sort can also actually cause an adverse reaction in the immune system which is what you need to avoid with your girls.

 

[TubbyChicken]

I still feel so confused...Assuming that my flock has also been affected as they were acquired from the same source, why have my birds been seemingly unaffected?


From what I've read I believe egg consumption must be safe as most flocks are affected by the disease in some capacity...Perhaps Andora's flock was disproportionately affected....

All of the birds she lost were young and from the research, that sounds to be the most vulnerable group. I wonder if some that she lost could be attributed to cocci rather than the cancer and if the survivors may have some immunity or natural resistance.

I don't believe that bringing new birds in is a death sentence or a surety that they will contract the illness, otherwise the larger flocks that tested positive for the disease would be completely infected rather than smaller numbers.

Is there any way to test for the illness without culling the bird? I've read that proper sanitation and not breeding infected birds can cut way down on transmission. If the disease is transmitted easily I wouldn't think those measures would be sufficient.

This is all so overwhelming....

 

[Andora]

It is overwhelming. If this is common we can't be the only people who have a suffering flock. Someone else on here has to have gone through this before...?

I'm going to call the state vet and I'll post what he says.

 

[nicelittlehens]

Hello, Check out a web site I found that might be helpful to you. Google this name (POULTRY DISEASE DIAGNOSIS BASED ON SYMPTOMS) let me know if this helps.

 

[Minx]

Quote:
There is testing available but I think it is more for the poultry industry ... I imagine it would be pretty expensive ??. When AL occurs in the poultry industry they do actually separate the birds that test positive.

Understanding Avian Leukosis is more about understanding how retroviruses work at a cellular level and seeing how an individual bird reacts to whatever the trigger may be. There are different sub groups as well with AL there are ALV A & B which some birds are resistant to and a newer variant ALV-J which most birds are apparently susceptible too. If your birds are from the same flock the chances are they will have AL. It is mindblowing

http://www.idexx.com/production/poultry/poultry10.jsp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus

 

[Andora]

Thanks for all the links--I've been reading up on this, I just don't have a lot of time to comment.

I'm beginning to feel like this will never end. This morning I went out and the golden comet pullet has one eye area swollen so huge that she can't see out of it. It's bubbly and wet. I know that it's from Coryza, because the Dr. I talked to yesterday told me that the long bacteria name on the necropsy report was indicative of IC in the dead pullet. (Though this is the first one to have a huge swollen eye like this.) He told me that IC should be treated with sulfa drugs, BUT this pullet has been acting sickly for a few weeks and they just had five days of Sulmet. Another hen with similar symptoms--runny nose and bubbly eye--was cured with Tylan 50. Do you think I should try that first? I just....want all my birds to be healthy at once for even a few days.

 

[wateboe]

Andora, check your PM for a referral to someone who might be very helpful... no guarantee, but he was enormously helpful to me when my flock was going through a similar experience.