Murray McMurray chick delivery

[EggSighted4Life]

Something I read was that the ND formulation is instantly absorbed with no digestion required. Don't know if it's true or not...or if other vitamins assimilate differently.

That's what I read to. In the human world, I know things can be chealated differently. But I can't help but wonder, if it isn't absorbed say sublingual, then it does still go into the digestive tract.. with water or straight. But so does the other liquid vitamins I have. I have to wonder if they do the same thing but aren't touted by other companies because maybe they haven't done the research to see how the uptake was? So it doesn't compare itself to other liquid supplements but to intake of feed which requires digestion to uptake the nutrient.
http://www.nutridrench.com/index.html
And what bugs me is I can't find the nutritional value or ingredient list... just testamonials. The birds I bought nutridrench for were not in nearly the same sad shape as the previous ones, so I have no side by side comparison. (even then, different chicks will respond differently to the same med just like us) Since I have it I will use it when needed, but not sure I would spend 3 times as much for the Nutridrench over the other product I have. However I might do a split test if I ever do end up with failing (shipped) chicks in the future.

I also wonder how they can claim 99% utilization, if in theory a body will only utilize what it needs and excrete the rest?

Sorry, I am very much an attention to detail type person... and I wanna know the whole TRUTH, even if I don't like it.

 

[aart]

Sorry, I am very much an attention to detail type person... and I wanna know the whole TRUTH, even if I don't like it.

Me too...but, have learned to accept it's often illusive and not worth the mental stress to chase it. The older I get, the fewer fights seem worth battling.

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

 

[RoosterCogburn7]

https://richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

 

[lzbloomy]

hi. thanks for replies. ACV probiotics clumps of dirt ... all that. chicks that were in trouble to start, have died. we just realized one has disfigured feet and i realize another little fighter who made it 3 weeks didn't look "normal" to start. so that is as i understand hatchery issues. we had very good luck before with MMMC but really think there is a problem or was this year. not just blaming - sure there is always more that someone can do for mail order chicks as out of the blocks or eggs they are going to be more stressed. we have raised chicks with hens and think that is the best way of course iMMcM sells to our local Murdochs and we ahve had good luck buying from them and will do that again. happy chicken raising!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

Highlighted from the link you provided...

Medical-grade diatomite has been studied for its efficacy as a deworming agent in cattle; in both studies cited the groups being treated with diatomaceous earth did not fare any better than control groups.[11][12]

Still looking at the other...

Thank you for providing your sources.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

https://richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

Highlighted from this link... which most of his info is related to killing bugs on the surface. Yes DE works to kill bugs... but it is not more effective than pesticide as this guy claims. He is using mostly hear say... (though I will say, I don't know of any insect that builds resistance to the product)

One strange thing about diatomaceous earth is that for it to work on killing bugs, you have to keep it dry. Even morning dew can make diatomaceous earth ineffective.

Farmers feed gobs of diatomaceous earth (food grade) to animals in the hopes that it will cure whatever ails them. Many farmers swear that the stuff kills all sorts of worms in their critters.

Sincerely, next time you are going to worm because you have "dirty eggs" let me cover the cost to have the before and after float tests done to see the results?! Or anybody else who swears by it but never actually tests... open offer!

I'm no boob as the guy suggest people claiming it doesn't work are. I very much like the permiculture idea. But strip mining DE isn't earth friendly as what I would expect out of earth conscious people.

Sorry, this is also from Wikipedia..
Natural freshwater diatomaceous earth is used in agriculture for grain storage as an anticaking agent, as well as an insecticide.[19] It is approved by the Food and Drug Administration as a feed additive[20] to prevent caking.

Some believe it may be used as a natural anthelmintic (dewormer), although studies have not shown it to be effective.[11][12] Some farmers add it to their livestock and poultry feed to prevent the caking of feed

I reitterate, does the DE stay dry all the way through the intestines and sharp past the gizzard or work as a wormer? Or are lots of people buying snake oil and selling it to their friends? Or to put it more nicely, using a product that works well for some applications but not the one they intend? I mean I get you want your eggs cleared up and said it works for you! I don't question that.

Thanks for your time and providing your resources, and for considering my input as well. Being able to share differing ways is what helps BYC to be such a great community, and all of us trying to our best for our animals!

 

[PrancingGoat]

@lzbloomy Are any of your chicks getting sick with cocci? Despite my paying for the cocci and Mareks vaccine and keeping them in an immaculate and huge brooder, mine started pooping blood this morning...
Been treating them with Corid mixed in water thanks to some great advice I got both from a vet and from this site. Never had cocci here before so wondered why these chicks got it before they even went outside and since they were supposedly vaccinated! Is cocci why my favorite one didn't seem to grow and then died at 10 days old?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@lzbloomy Are any of your chicks getting sick with cocci? Despite my paying for the cocci and Mareks vaccine and keeping them in an immaculate and huge brooder, mine started pooping blood this morning...
Been treating them with Corid mixed in water thanks to some great advice I got both from a vet and from this site. Never had cocci here before so wondered why these chicks got it before they even went outside and since they were supposedly vaccinated! Is cocci why my favorite one didn't seem to grow and then died at 10 days old?

I didn't know they had a cocci vaccine.

However, there are Coccidia in every single chicken poo. They are always present and they thrive in warm, humid conditions similar to that of a brooder. There are 9 strains of Cocci, only 1 of which presents as blood in the droppings. Corid is good at treating it. And most medicated starters have a low dose Amprolium mixed in, which is the same thing. It is not an antibiotic and works by blocking thiamine which slows the growth of the Coccidia. Sometimes the medicated starter isn't enough and you may still have to treat. Since they are always present it is ONLY a problem when there is an overgrowth of them. It takes 6 days for the symptoms to appear (from I guess OVER exposure to the cocci since they are always exposed). It is most likely to occur in chicks but can also happen in adult birds. Weather is obviously a factor. And you do not want to supplement with vitamins during this time as that will defeat the purpose. Adding vitamins containing the B's afterwards is a good idea, but not necessary.

I will say that when I first had to treat for cocci (a larger brood than ever before) I discovered my shavings were wetter underneath than what they "appeared" on top.

As far as Mareks goes... I thought that is essentially an avian herpes virus that couldn't be passed on to the egg. So if all the eggs are hatching in a building with no birds on site and it isn't known to be present in my area, I skip it. That's my current understanding.

Also will add that any vaccine is not guaranteed to be 100% effective. It's basically an exposure the the dead virus (or bacteria/whatever it is) in the hopes that the immune system will build some anti bodies or resistance to it. Any individual may react differently. Like the flu shot, some people will develop symptoms others will not.

I always recommend bringing in a dish of dirt at the youngest possible age in order to expose the chicks to whatever is out their while their immune system is high during the first couple of weeks. Plus they really enjoy having it! A sterile environment IMO is not a good thing. Children kept that way (barring specific medical need) often end up with more illness than children who have some exposure.

One major contributor to cocci is poo getting in the drinking water. This is something we will change EVERY time we see ANY poo. We must put cones on top of all our chick waterers to keep them off.

Sorry for the loss of your fave. That's always the first to go. It could have been cocci. Use the info I gave you and reason it out. But sometimes chicks fail for reasons we may not know. Their digestive tract might not be working right and absorbing the nutrients. Could even be a missed pasty butt. And anything that is going to infect your flock will take the weakest members first. Survival of the fittest is a harsh reality. Of course we do our best to keep the playing field level.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[PrancingGoat]

Thank you for a really informative post.

I didn't know they had a cocci vaccine

They apparently do at Murray McMurray, which I paid for with each of my 15 chicks (9 making it to 3weeks), but I read someone else's post from 3 years ago that also had this same thing happen with chicks from them so who knows what they are doing over there. If anything, it was just another stress for them to deal with during the shipping and ended up making me feel safe about cocci when in fact, as I am learning, it is a very real threat still!

The sterile conditions were because they had said that the chicks need about 10 days to develop immunity to the vaccine they were given at the hatchery so I couldn't infect them with anything. I am sure I was being over paranoid but I feel like (what I imagine) a first time mom feels like, haha. I changed their litter every other day, didn't touch them unless I needed to deal with pasty butt, washed hands anytime I changed their water (which was a lot bc there was poop/shavings constantly getting kicked into it).

It has now been 40 hours since I gave them Corid in their water. I mix it fresh every morning. There were no other symptoms of cocci other than bloody poop when I treated them... they all were running around and eating and drinking. After 24 hours, the bloody poop stopped. I think everyone is going to make it except for my new FAVORITE (not ever choosing a favorite again after this). She was the first one to show bloody poop and has been going downhill ever since. She drank and ate fine when I treated them all, but now shows all the other classic symptoms of hunching with ruffled feathers and eyes half closed:

She barely drinks and doesn't seem interested in food. Is there anything else I can do? These are like family to me so thank you so much for the help!