Muscovies in US - REGULATION CHANGES OPEN FOR COMMENTS - 10/1 update

[Mac_]

I certainly do not have a problem with controlling populations of Muscovies that become a problem. But this rule goes way beyond that.

Mac_

 

[muscovychef]

ack so much going on about sup farms closing no one can think anything ...... any way here is the last bit
Yes, The IWBA Pres. Jim Konecny wrote the article. He's provided all the information to Dr. Allen on the domestic Exhibition Muscovy's. The pinioning of the Muscovy's is to prove they were bred and raised on a farm.

there you go.... I dont think dewinging is that big of a deal my self. mine cant fly anyway so flying to get away from preditors isnt an issue.

 

[muscovychef]

I read the stories and looked at the pics and videos those are all upscale areas on waterfront .
What did they think would happen ?? all that frustation over the birds ,building all this time and now you can kill them???
Im sorry but i in a way can understand this, my area is dog dump!!! the pound and humane will take them if you bring them in. Have you tried to catch a stray dog??? they tear into my pens kill my stock if they can, yes i have my yard chain link fenced they dig under i fill cement rocks , my trash can is a target, they charged my autistic brother. I cant put my dog out , yesterday i saved the neighbors puppy that was being mauled . They have ripped up the neighbors horses so now the stud attacks dogs didnt know horses did that.
any way a dog lover would be saying save em and i am at the point i dont care if they die just leave me alone. Im betting those people think the same......

 

[Duck_feeder]

Quote:
whether or not they migrate is irrelevant. The MBTA covers them regardless becuase they are native to both the US and Mexico.

Domestic muscovy are not like their wild counter parts not only in size but color pattern and facial crun dev. Much like polish some of the dev. is to the point they can hardly see. The stock I have now not any of either sex cant fly even in strong winds they more climb and not high a 3 foot fence can contain them.

unless the domestic breed is recognized as a different species or subspecies from the wild Muscovy ducks, there is no scientific or legal grounds to treat them differently. Size and variations in appearance are generally not enough to classify them as a new subspecies. If that was the sole criteria than any domestic Muscovy that looked like a wild Muscovy and was a similar size would then be considered a wild breed.

I'm hoping that there were DNA tests performed when they determined the natural range of wild muscovies in the US. That would be a good starting point to seeing if there are unique genetic markers that could be used to claim domestic muscovies are a seperate subspecies.

Hoffmans founder has has muscovy for at least 65 or more years. I have had them for over 30 years 35 i believe. ive had them from 14 years of age.

like I said before duration of captivity doesn't automatically make an animal domesticated. Macaws have been in captivity for at least as long as muscovies and they are still not considered domesticated.

yes I know you and I likly know more than any bioligist on muscovy as we live with them.

hey, some of us were trained as biologists!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Google for more.

That is absurd--they were NEVER a protected species.

 

[Mac_]

You know, that same treaty protects crows. Crows are considered a migratory bird and are protected. I found out about this when crows were stealing eggs out of nest barrels and I called state wildlife about rules about shooting crows.

I still think that they could exempt all domestic Muscovies if they get enough public input.

Also, I think that they could then include model regulations, that states or municipalities could adopt, if they are having a problem, and if they so choose.

 

[muscovychef]

like I said before duration of captivity doesn't automatically make an animal domesticated. Macaws have been in captivity for at least as long as muscovies and they are still not considered domesticated.
Ahhh but who makes these rules eh???
any way we could argue the fine points for decades but its pretty much over, If i could id drive to florida and shove as many muscovy in my van as possible and id do alot of shoving . But I will be glad when they no longer have their problem so muscovy can go back to being not in the lime light.

its too bad that people want to make a line between animals cows domestic parrots no pigs domestic muscovy no.
in my humble opinion any animal that befriends man and is changed in size color or shape and wont kill me or eat me is domestic. I add that because people will add crocs in the bath tub and lions in the living room. All thow bulls and horses injure and kill more people than crocs or lions yearly. Check it out on the web. yikes....
I have had just about everything and my friends had what i wouldnt. over generations most not all but most become tame and domesticated but we drew a line.

Il tell you my fav. Rats are so smart and can be very loving and have humor . Skunks not so smart but sweet and cat like , And coons they are very smart. and seem to be a one person animal like many dogs are. Mine could on their own pick locks open doors pull open chest of drawers . they would put their hands on either side of my face and look me in the eye ...... play play lol

 

[Duck_feeder]

Quote:
Google for more.

That is absurd--they were NEVER a protected species.

Glad to see TV journalism is just as high quality as it was when I decided to stop watching TV news more than a decade ago...

I think I'm going to have to send a letter to that CBS affiliate to explain to them how many things they got wrong. (or maybe list the things they got right as that would be much short of a list...)

 

[Parrotchick]

Quote:
Since the dawn of time, all life forms have been moving around the planet and evolving to better adapt, be it birds, insects, fish, humans...Even non-living entities do it: Mountains move and rivers change course. Climate change could certainly be a factor accelerating this process. Dr. Allen, as well as other scientists, say that many species of animals are expanding their natural range northwards. Dr. Allen told me he couldn't say for sure how the Muscovies first got to Texas; he wasn't there when the first ones arrived with their suitcases. Of course it's possible that some people crossed the border and brought Muscovies with them. (This would have put them in the category of “imported” species, like starlings and English Sparrows.) But it’s most likely the birds just ambled over themselves, since they don't exactly pay any mind to geopolitical boundaries.

That's not such a likely scenario in Florida, since we know Muscovies can barely fly across the pasture, let alone across the Gulf of Mexico. I have heard that wild Muscovies are very different in appearance from the ones we know, but I do not know if there is some sort of biological determinant to differentiate. Even if there were, I doubt it would be used in everyday practical applications of policy. Research and its funding will take time, but people want action sooner. This may be why the scientific classifications seem murky now in the regs.

For those who are irked because they feel that Dr. Allen wants us to do his work by writing our suggestions for the new regs, keep in mind a few things. In order for this sort of federal regulation to be changed, a comment period must be opened up. As I stated in an earlier post, I don’t know the format nor duration of this comment period. But his requests for our input seem to serve this purpose. Perhaps there were legal loopholes that enabled the process to be accelerated for this unusual case. We should be glad for this because my understanding is that it usually takes a bare minimum of three to six months to get a reg changed and we’ve gotten action in a month.

Also, FWS has a lot more to do than just handling the Muscovy issues. They don’t have endless time and resources to research everything. While these ducks may be a significant part of our personal lives, they are just one of thousands of birds they deal with for their jobs. A greater number of people have posted here on this topic alone than the number of people who work in their division. So yes, they probably could have done more earlier, but they’re trying to fix it now. Our information will help guide them. If you look at the original reg, the comments were categorized by areas of focus, and in some cases were even quoted or paraphrased.

While everyone is certainly free to gripe about past mistakes and to speculate on agendas, it does not practically advance our cause and could even hinder it. We can and have made a difference by sharing our concerns and knowledge with the FWS. So please use your energy and resources in a positive way to affect the outcome in a way that satisfies everyone.

 

[rittert3]

As far as I know, the many uses of muscovies have been brought to the attention of the athorities. They are willing to work with those owning them until the law is revised. I think that in the end nothing will change for those that keep domestic moscovy. If you are concerned Barry Koffler has posted a gov. contact e-mail, in which to send your suggestions and concerns, on his website (feathersite.com).