My first ever hatch is going wrong... Please help

[Tricoglossus]

Some good news - I have returned home from uni to find one perfect indian game chick peeping it's little head off and stumbling around on the hatch tray!! This chick has hatched late on day 24. My partner says it took only an hour from pip to hatch.

There are 2 eggs left that are now at day 24; the remaining 4 eggs are at day 21 today.

So now this little one has hatched, how long can I leave it before moving it into the brooder? I have read that when they hatch they have about 2-3 days worth of food supplied in the yolk sac. However does this still apply to those that hatch so late? Will it have been using up some of that energy store whilst it was still in the egg?

Fingers crossed for the other chicks - I hope I get at least one more so this little chick has a buddy.

Thanks for the advice midget farms. I was certainly not going to intervene unless I felt I had no other choice. I have been reading a lot in the forum about when and when not to help the chicks out. I figured that if I had caused a humidity stuff up and all the chicks were going to be too big to be able to break out of their shells, then I would have to help them out. However this little chick that hatched seems to be just fine. I wonder why they are hatching so late. I did store the eggs for a week before I set them so I had enough to make it worthwhile (yet another variable to throw into the mix!) and the ambient temperature had been really high when I did that (no choice - no air conditioning in this house!). I also forgot to mention that I started off with 18 fertile eggs (some under a broody as well, for the first few days) and over that time I have lost some (at day 5 most were fertile, about 3 were clears); a few died in the first week; one died at about 10 days; and the last to die was the one that pipped. So I ended up with 11 in the incubator going into lockdown (5 of them I had put in the incubator at 5 days of incubation under the broody hen; the rest had always been in the incubator). Therefore I already started with about twice the number of eggs that I was hoping to hatch, so to lose them all now would have been awful!

Hopefully I will have some more good updates soon.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are different things that can cause them to hatch early or late. Heredity has an influence. High humidity during incubation can cause them to be a little late, low humidity might make them a bit early. There are just basic differences in the eggs. Smaller eggs tend to hatch a little earlier than larger eggs. Some eggs have thicker whites while others are more watery. Each individual egg is different and that can have an effect. My eggs have never been late, but sometimes they can be two full days early, either in the incubator or under a broody. Sometimes they are pretty much right on time.

How and how long you store them can make a difference. I don’t know what your ambient temperature was, but that one doesn’t make a lot of sense for you. The warmer they are kept the earlier they should be. The longer you store them the more moisture they lose as well as the longer they have to develop some in warm temperatures.

One huge influence and one I’d suspect for you is the average incubating temperature. If the average incubating temperature is a little warm, they can be a few days early. If it is a little cool, they can be a few days late. With yours being that late, I strongly suspect that is your cause. I suggest getting a good thermometer and checking your temperature.

I’ll ask a silly question, are you counting the days right? It’s surprising how many people don’t. There’s even a hatching calendar floating around this forum that has it wrong. An egg doesn’t have a full day’s worth of development the instant it is set in the incubator. It takes 24 hours for the egg to have a day’s worth of development. In theory, under ideal conditions, it takes about 21 days of development for the eggs to hatch. As you can see above, that is just theory. Reality doesn’t always work that way. A good way to check your counting is that the day of the week you set them is the day of the week they should hatch. If you set them on a Friday, they should hatch on a Friday.

It’s great news that one hatched and is acting right. That’s a good question. With it being late I’d suspect it used fewer nutrients per day because it developed slower so you probably have the full three days. But the chick can tell you that. When they are not happy, they give a real plaintive peeping. Once you hear it, you’ll recognize it. It’s a real steady peeping that leaves no doubt the chick is not happy. It will probably just stay I one spot when doing that instead of moving around. I hear that when a chick gets separated from a broody or gets itself stuck somewhere.

One time with chicks I got in the mail, one did not learn to drink although I dipped its beak when I put it in the brooder and its siblings were showing it how to drink. This was two days after I got them so probably 4 to 5 days after hatch. It was giving that plaintive peeping. I dipped its beak in the water and it stood there drinking for a while. When you hear that peeping you’ll know something is wrong.

As long as the other eggs have not pipped, there is not any real risk in taking the chick out. The other eggs won’t dry out before the humidity recovers. Even if an egg has pipped the risk is not huge. You might have a spray bottle of lukewarm water handy and quickly mist the eggs when you open it, but I don’t even do that if I have to open the incubator during lockdown.

 

[Bens-Hens]

Good luck. I hope some more come through for you.

I agree that imperfect incubation is most likely the cause for a long hatch, but one thing to consider which I have not heard mentioned in here yet is parent diet. My understanding, breeder flocks have slightly different dietary requirements to 'egg birds'. I have read cases of table birds eggs not making it to hatch and dieing in the last phases of the process due to lack of vigor. This vigor comes from what the hen had ate when producing the egg in the first place. If there is not enough fuel in that egg, it could not make it full term.

I have read of this supported with flocks where the hens were on high wheat scratch diets and layer pellets only. No table scraps, free ranging or protein feeds and many eggs were lost in the pip/zip phase.

Some sugar water would be good in the first day too, I find that perks them up in the brooder.

 

[1muttsfan]

You might want to read through the Hatching 101 article in the Learning Center. Good luck with the rest of your hatch.

 

[Tricoglossus]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Ridgerunner, I have been counting the days right, I have it all planned out on a timetable in front of me. Muttsfan, I did read the Hatching 101 article, and heaps of other stuff on BYC. There is so much great information available on here.

I have moved the new chick to the brooder where it is doing well. Unfortunately it is on it's own, as the other eggs have not hatched. I decided to open up the two remaining eggs from the earlier batch (today = day 26 for them). They were both fully formed, dead in shell, and their beaks had not penetrated the air cell. They were both positioned correctly (head under right wing, beak pointing towards air cell). One of them had withdrawn a good deal of yolk into its body and was damp but not soaking in moisture. The other had withdrawn less yolk, but was literally drowning in fluid. The air cells were a good size in both eggs.

There were 4 eggs remaining in the incubator after I removed the dead ones (they are at day 23 today). One of these was definitely dead and so I took it out (it had died earlier on, about day 12, not sure how I missed it, but the shadow when candling was quite dark). The remaining three I candled and there was no movement or cheeping, beaks not in the air cell. Should I give these a chance, or are they likely to be dead as well? I'm not sure how much movement it's possible to detect when all you can really see is a black blob and an air cell. The lack of cheeping is very concerning, because one of these eggs cheeped when I shone a torch on it on Sunday night. Anyway I put them back in the incubator.

The new chick can drink on it's own, is eating a bit of food, and I have put a soft toy in with it and a little mirror. It cheeps now and then as if it's lost. It is very happy with human company and has really imprinted on my partner. Now we have to decide if we should get another chick to keep it company. I suppose the worry for me is bringing in potential disease with a new chick, as the last thing I want is for our sole survivor to get a respiratory infection and die!

So in hindsight there are so many things to consider. The only surviving chick came from the fertile egg of an indian game bantam pullet that I purchased recently, she was still laying fertile eggs when I got her (from the indian game rooster in her pen from where I bought her) so I decided to incubate some of her eggs with some of mine from my flock. Perhaps my flock do not have the best genetics, or the best food, compared to what that pullet was eating from where I got her and her genetics. The only other chick to pip was also an indian game. I obviously stuffed up the humidity in the incubator, and the temperature fluctuations have been bad as well. So many things! The sad part is that I now have only one chick all on it's own. I have called it "Pancake" because it keeps falling asleep flat on it's back, then flipping itself over.

 

[Bens-Hens]

Glad to hear the one is doing ok, but sorry you lost the rest.

I think the issue would have laid with the humidity during the incubation. I am not familiar with those, but the breeder we use from out Oakford way was using some of the bigger model as hatchers for a while, but did her first 18 days in other units as they were more reliable.

I am not massively experienced in incubation, only done a few different sorts and what I have found is that the eggs tend to stand up better to fluctuations in temp than humidity. Using a hygrometer is easy to manage at a glance, but I have recently also started to back up that method with weighing eggs. It sounds as though you are very organised, so it should be easy for you to track the data.

I aim for 50-55% humidity with my hygrometer as a guide but I fine tune it with scales. Overall, the egg needs to loose 14% +/- 1% of it's start weight. So I have little electronic kitchen scales that go down to a gram (0.1 would be better but I make do) I weigh them each time I candle and make sure the humidity is in the right place. While I am there I also mark the aircell line with a pencil, at Day 18 the final line goes on and then it's easy to see where the pip is in relation to the air cell. Nothing can be done about it if it's wrong, but I like to know if it's right.

If you decide to buy a day old I can put you in touch with some local places that should have some day olds.

Cheers, Ben

 

[Tricoglossus]

Yes I should have weighed the eggs, marked on the air cell in pencil and used a hygrometer. Those are the biggest mistakes I made. I will know what to do next time.
Ben are you talking about Katt's Cluckers in Oakford? I got half my flock from her! The rest I got from her sister in law, also in Oakford, and another breeder in that area who was downsizing. My two indian game pullets are the only ones I didn't get from Oakford (got them in Capel when I was coming back from a break in Augusta). I have contacted Katt about day-olds, she had some a couple of weeks ago, not sure if she has any that young at the moment. Pancake only weighs 20g so will need another really small chick for company!

 

[midget_farms]

I'm sorry they were lost. Unfortunately it can take 2 or 3 or even 4 hatches to learn what works best for your incubator. I built my own & humidity was right where the book said it should be, but I had too much airflow & all my chicks were dry & got stuck in the shell. Don't be discouraged in 3 weeks you can have another batch!

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

If it makes you feel any better, I've been hatching for quite some time and just recently lost an entire batch of eggs (not the first time, either ). I, for some reason or another, forgot to remove the vent plugs- at least I'm guessing that was the problem.
It happens to the best of us, just learn from it and try again

 

[Bens-Hens]

Yes I should have weighed the eggs, marked on the air cell in pencil and used a hygrometer. Those are the biggest mistakes I made. I will know what to do next time.
Ben are you talking about Katt's Cluckers in Oakford? I got half my flock from her! The rest I got from her sister in law, also in Oakford, and another breeder in that area who was downsizing. My two indian game pullets are the only ones I didn't get from Oakford (got them in Capel when I was coming back from a break in Augusta). I have contacted Katt about day-olds, she had some a couple of weeks ago, not sure if she has any that young at the moment. Pancake only weighs 20g so will need another really small chick for company!

Yes I was thinkking Of Katt. We have got a fair amount from her. Also a few from Chickenopolis just around the corner. She would be my first port of call for a young bird, but you could also try gumtree, chooknet or so0me of the FB pages like;

Here are a few on my FB feed I keep an eye on. We are in Kenwick, so Katt is usualy best for us travel wise.

https://www.facebook.com/PoultryAndBirdsInBeverley
https://www.facebook.com/henleybrookchooks
https://www.facebook.com/Kattscluckers
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chickenopolis/424973497571846
http://www.freewebs.com/chookloop/

Some have a bit of travel though.

I think Altona Hatchery sell Hy-Lines (Isa brown hybrids) as day olds too, but not sure on the volumes required. I have never bought from them before. Might be worth a look for quick healthy day olds.
http://www.altona.net.au/

Cheers Ben