My Salmon Faverolles Pullet is Black - Help Me Understand the Genetics

[ChickieChickieMama]

I have a darling little 13 week old Salmon Faverolles pullet whose peculiar colouring has been keeping me up at night, researching her genetics.

If it was just her, I would put it aside as a bad breeding fluke, but the more I've talked about her online the more similar SF pullets I've discovered so I really want to understand what's going on here and would love any illumination on the subject!

She's only hatchery quality, from Ideal Poultry, and it seems as though most (though not all) of the similar pullets I've heard of are also from Ideal. This is my girl, Vera, from when I got her (about three days old) to today at 13 weeks and one day, and if anyone else with a similar girl would like to post their pics here for reference too, please do!

This is the link to my thread where a number of others have chimed in about their own experiences, but none of us know enough about SF specific genetics to figure out this mystery!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rolles-a-roo-or-just-a-strange-color.1262312/

 

[WhiteWyan]

I can only guess that the breeders mix in other breeds from time to time in order to keep genetics healthy. Your hen looks like a cross between a salmon fav and something else?

 

[ChickNanny13]

Pretty Girls although she does look like a mix, color's off

 

[AnimalGeek23]

X2 with posts above. The coloring is a bit off, so she might be a mix. She has the most unique color I’ve ever seen tho!
Such a beautiful girl!

 

[PouleChick]

I remember your last thread about her. She is pretty isn't she!

I have just tried to look on the net and came across an old thread on here, not exactly the same colouring or hatchery but:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/what-color-is-my-faverolles-hen-mahogany-with-pics.250249/

 

[Farmgirl1878]

Maybe a mix with a Speckled Sussex? She’s a beauty!

My SF, from Meyer, has a turned up fifth toe. The toe is perfectly formed, just upside-down. I’m hoping she gets over her shyness because I’m thinking that nail is going to need frequent trimming...

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

Thanks everyone for chiming in! I think she definitely must be mixed with something else(I was totally thinking Speckled Sussex or Spangled Russian Orloff - she looks a lot like her best friend from the same hatchery batch, who is a SRO)...

...But what I'm really looking for here is an explanation of the genetics at play that would allow for this sort of colouring...I'm trying to learn about chicken genetics and just want to someone to "speak geeky to me!" Haha

 

[OhZark Biddies]

T...I was totally thinking Speckled Sussex or Spangled Russian Orloff

...I'm trying to learn about chicken genetics and just want to someone to "speak geeky to me!" Haha

I'll get the geek speak started, but might not be geeky enough for this to lead anywhere interesting ... I'll stop there with the innuendo, before geek speak drifts into creep speak, lol

Anyway, I feel like this is a case of other genes cropping up and being at play more than a cross of breeds, but I have looked at few crosses as well.

Salmon Faverolles X Speckled sussex
EWh/EWh, co+/co+, S/S Mo+/Mo+ e+/e+, Co/Co, s+/-, MhMh, mo/mo

I've highlighted the differences below:

So this doesn't seem to fit.

But what if the SF carried a recessive mottling gene, then maybe the result would be something like the pullet in question:

Salmon Faverolles X Speckled sussex
EWh/EWh, co+/co+, S/S Mo+/mo e+/e+, Co/Co, s+/-, MhMh, mo/mo

But I still lean toward this being a case not of a cross, but more of a case of a color enhancer gene showing up... such as Melanotic
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html

I've tried to find a reference image of what a Wheaten based hen would look like with twocopies of Melanotic but, haven't found one.

Most images I find discussing Melanotic tend to show light breasts with dark toward the back... so i might be way off.

Of course there might be some other color enhancer and/or diluter at play too, maybe?

I suspect one of the genetic experts might recognize the way that black is being expressed in the feather patterns and "know" what is going on just from experience???

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

I'll get the geek speak started, but might not be geeky enough for this to lead anywhere interesting ... I'll stop there with the innuendo, before geek speak drifts into creep speak, lol

Hahaha...and now we know exactly what it takes to get from "Crazy Chicken Person" to "Creepy Chicken Person!"

But back to the matter at hand *ahem* , that's where I got to as well then started to stumble. I couldn't figure out what type of melaniser would allow for black in her primary pattern....

I did find this interesting summary of patterning: http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/08E02A05.pdf

The highlights of which (to me) are this:

So, my (barely educated) guess would be to agree that is not just Ml at work (since it's reported to have little to no bearing on Wheaten [unless perhaps this is a case of the mythical recessive Wheaten??]) but rather some extreme combination of the above? Is that possible as just a gene mutation or would this only come up as the result of a cross? And why are so many of them coming up now with this patterning....are Salmon Faverolles being improperly crossbred to unrecognition, or is a new variation emerging?

On top of that, she seems to be extremely soft feathered compared to the other pictures of Faverolles I'm seeing, almost as though she's lacking the barbing to keep her fluffy feathers in place...is this another mutation? I think it adds to her odd look and masks the clean speckling/lacing which would otherwise be more apparent.

Thoughts?

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

Haha...and if it isn't a new variation emerging, perhaps someone should make it their project because everyone seems to love seeing these girls and I think there would be a lot of interest in another type of sweet Faverolles!!