Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kassaundra]

The pink tunic didn't work, but I was able to finish the green wool tunic made some modifications and he is wearing it tonight. The sides come over the outside of his thighs and he doesn't like it, going to give it a few days and see if he adjusts, since it will keep him warmer.

 

[Kev]

Here are the first pics of my F2 Aloha x NN crosses. (I've been working on an "American" version of Swedish Flower called "Aloha" chickens, with bright motting)

Remember I used the NN hen that introduced the NN gene, because she was a HUGE buff hen with bright yellow legs, and I needed the size and leg color she had! The Naked Neck gene just kind of "came along for the ride". LOL.

Here is the first cross. I just LOVED this rooster's color. But had zero body type. Narrow chest, skinny, no "meat" on his bones. Did I mention he had nice color? LOL.




Large hens with light buff color, yellow legs, black tail tip. Rooster needs to be red, brown, or buff. PM me if you have something like this and want to trade a few eggs. Would be to get my friend a few "outside" bloodline hens for Robin.

Will keep y'all updated on how the "Aloha Naked Necks" develop.

Yeah, nice color on that roo!

I'm curious- are the black on tails and 'mille fleur' pattern the reasons for not including dominant white?

 

[Kev]

My first cemani/NN cross has hatched - and it's a naked neck! The skin is mostly regular pink, except for around the face, a big patch on the back, a small patch on the neck, and the legs are dark. She has hatched with completely white fluff - daddy must have dominant white. Ah well, one quarter of her offspring should hatch black feathered, according the chicken genetics calculator, so those will be the ones I keep from the second generation cross. Pictures to come of the little one! I'm hoping that other eggs hatch with more black skin than her, but we will see.

Where are the pictures..


1/4 black feathered out of what parents?

 

[Kev]

Kev, got another question for you. If you breed standard to bantum how do the chicks come out. I lost my std modern game rooster, I found a banty of same breed and color.

Ouch, std moderns aren't too easy to find....

There are several different dwarfing genes in chickens. some are autosomal, some sex linked. I don't know which ones modern bantams have..

If it's sex linked then banty over std should give all dwarf-ish/large sized bantys. The sons from this over std hens would give half normals half dwarf-ish.

The answer is somewhat clouded by the fact there are dwarfing genes that have a big effect all by themselves... however breeders over the years have added genes that made them even smaller etc- a small OEG bantam would have a main dwarf gene plus various genes making them even smaller. So.. sometimes bantam- std crosses can turn out small or even full size but normally they come out somewhere in between. I would not be surprised either way- the crosses turning out large banty or almost std size. Or even both, just have to do it and see what happens.

My crosses of sebright over a standard hen(not modern game) gave roos close to their mother in size, daughters very noticeably smaller but still bigger than the sebright. Std roo over sebright gave roos that were exactly the same size as their sisters and all were perfectly in middle size between the parents- seems to indicate sebrights have the sex linked dwarfing gene. Roo from this produced birds from large bantam to full size when bred with normal size hens.

The chicks from parents that were all out of bantam-std crosses were fun to hatch and grow, every size imaginable out of them- very tiny to big full sizes.

 

[alohachickens]

Yeah, nice color on that roo!

I'm curious- are the black on tails and 'mille fleur' pattern the reasons for not including dominant white?

Hey Kev,

I'm still a little fuzzy on how the Dominant White gene works? And what it does to future generations. Please feel free to enlighten me! LOL.

So in general I kind of play it safe, and if I don't understand the gene, I'm reluctant to mess with it. Generally, I just try to work with the more "basic" genes that I'm familiar with. Like red, black, mottled, etc. Though solid Buff threw me for a loop? Couple years back, I tried some Buff Rocks in the mix which added nice size and yellow legs, but for some TOTALLY unknown reason that nobody could explain, I could not for the life of me get the solid Buff and Mottling gene to "play" together? In several years of trying I only got one yellow-mottled hen. I don't know if this is because there is an "unknown" factor and even folks into chicken genetics don't understand what gene makes the tails buff instead of black? At any rate, getting the Mille color that way was a dismal failure.

Later, I realized the buff with the black tail and neck ring (Buff Columbian) "plays nice" with Mottling, (unlike solid Buff with buff tails?) and have been on a quest to find more birds in that Buff Columbian color, ever since. Took me forever to find Buff Sussex.

There are also Buff Brahmas but then you have feather legs and other issues that I didn't want.

It turns out the Naked Neck hens that my neighbor owned, had all the traits I was looking for. Big, buff hen, black tail, single comb, yellow legs. Ummm . . . she had the whole naked neck thing, too. But once I read that it was a simple dominant gene that I could easily remove, I had to try her in the program! So I was looking for a bit of outside genetic diversity that would not wreak havoc with the rest of the program.

Results so far have been GREAT. When crossed with my Mottled rooster, I got all Buff naked neck babies, all with yellow legs. Exactly as I'd hoped! So it turns out that NN hen had no weird hidden genes. Very glad this project has been working out so well, with no funky surprises! LOL.

And it's nice to see the babies growing out have also followed a predictable pattern. About half the babies are showing spots (as predicted when you breed a Mottled to a Mottled carrier) and all the chicks have pink legs (like the Sussex dads) but I know I can get that yellow leg color back again in the future, because the Moms carried the gene. It's nice when the DNA decides to cooperate and everything goes as planned! Because I've had my fair share of "what the heck happened here?" moments, breeding chickens! Ha ha ha.

 

[alohachickens]

This was the only Buff Mottled hen that I was ever able to breed. All others either were brown/white spotted, or Buff with maybe a stray white feather tip. I tried many back-crosses different ways, and kept track, but this was the only one!

I got plenty of solid buffs. Or plenty of brown/white mottled. But the chicks with Buff color and yellow tails seemed to "resist" all other attempts for the Mottling gene to climb on board.

She's in a breeder pen at my friend Stephen's just in case we can ever get another. LOL. Not a terribly exciting color, but was exciting to me because for the life of me, I just couldn't EVER get this to work. (Only this one time!)

Buff Rock bloodline.

 

[Pyxis]

Where are the pictures.. 


1/4 black feathered out of what parents?

I'll get some tonight of the little one. The chicken calculator said, and I don't know how accurate it is, that with this chick, if it is a pullet, under an ayam cemani rooster, at least 1/4 of the offspring should hatch black because she can only possibly have one copy of the dominant white gene since her mother definitely does not have it. But if that's not right I'd love to know so I can know what to expect!

 

[Kev]

Hey Kev,

I'm still a little fuzzy on how the Dominant White gene works? And what it does to future generations. Please feel free to enlighten me! LOL.

Always happy to help!

What Dominant White does is change black pigments to white while leaving red/gold colors unaffected(mostly). The best example are Gold Laced and Buff Laced Polish- the only difference between them is the GL has DW added. Otherwise all their color and pattern genes are "exactly the same".

DW leaves red/gold pigments largely untouched but it can give the illusion of being a shade lighter as it removes the natural microscopic deposits of black pigments on the gold areas(this is why buff laced looks softer, lighter than gold laceds) so this would be good for goal of a blond colored chickens. In fact some lines in solid buff breeds carry it for this reason- to lighten and also to hide any black leak.

I was wondering if anybody in regards your project had discussed it... in theory adding DW would turn the black in tails and the black bar right by the mottles into white, creating 'larger' white spots/patches. But I have not bred mottled birds to any extent- in fact only this year did I have any mottled birds in my flock so I am afraid to advise trying that out in case there are unexpected consequences.

DW would not work too well if your goal is to keep the black in the tails. However if you like the idea of more variable mottling- some with mille type, some with "DW-resultant larger white spots"... perhaps keeping the flock het for DW...?

DW is a simple autosomal dominant. It should be relatively easy to identify Alohas carrying it as most would lack any black on them. however I can imagine there would be some birds you would be hard pressed to tell if it were a splashy bird with DW or very splashy despite not having DW and happens not to show any or very little black....

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Fascinating! Hadn't even thought of solid buff with mottling.... it is true solid buff is one of the harder colors to accomplish, particularly so from scratch.. so many genes and some mysteries involved. Surprises like this is why I am sometimes reluctant to suggest some things- genetics don't care about "this theory makes perfect sense..."!

Quote:
I'll pretend to have never read that sentence.... (here the culling is the other way around LOL) A very large percentage of hatchery NN come out buff or red with black tails, with blacks with brown patterning the most common 'other' color. Other colors do show up much less commonly- whites, even a few mottleds but only can remember seeing a handful of those over the years. The good thing about hatchery NN is they tend to be very hardy, dual purpose and pretty good layers. Great outcrosses for projects.

The "what the hecks" are part of the fun!

 

[Kev]

This was the only Buff Mottled hen that I was ever able to breed. All others either were brown/white spotted, or Buff with maybe a stray white feather tip. I tried many back-crosses different ways, and kept track, but this was the only one!

I got plenty of solid buffs. Or plenty of brown/white mottled. But the chicks with Buff color and yellow tails seemed to "resist" all other attempts for the Mottling gene to climb on board.

She's in a breeder pen at my friend Stephen's just in case we can ever get another. LOL. Not a terribly exciting color, but was exciting to me because for the life of me, I just couldn't EVER get this to work. (Only this one time!)

Buff Rock bloodline.

To be clear, is this hen a descendant from buff rock outcross?

Has she been bred to a black rooster? Does her ground color seem to be a shade lighter than her buff siblings? I ask as I wonder if she might have Dominant White- remember some buff lines can have DW..... crossing with a black chicken(even a barred rock would do- they're solid black chickens with barring added, same concept as mottleds are black chickens with mottle added) would prove if she has DW or not.... because any bird with DW bred with a homozygous black chicken will result in either half or 100% white chicks growing up into either solid white or white with buff leaky hens and red pyle looking roosters.

 

[Kev]

I'll get some tonight of the little one. The chicken calculator said, and I don't know how accurate it is, that with this chick, if it is a pullet, under an ayam cemani rooster, at least 1/4 of the offspring should hatch black because she can only possibly have one copy of the dominant white gene since her mother definitely does not have it. But if that's not right I'd love to know so I can know what to expect!

That chick(either sex) bred with cemani would give 1/2 white 1/2 blacks.

For me, learning Punnett squares really helped with simple inheritance patterns early on. I'd try checking some webpages explaining them then doing some Punnet squares by your own with very simple genetic problems to get the basic genetics down.

iirc the genetic notation for DW is I? so the chick would be Ii and cemani ii.

Looking forward to baby pics!