Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[hellbender]

@Goosegrrl ...That does sound like a fun project but I don't know how much meat you'd get from the Polish...Perhaps crossed with a NN, you might get a fair to fine capon. One way to find out!!!

 

[Goosegrrl]

@Goosegrrl ...That does sound like a fun project but I don't know how much meat you'd get from the Polish...Perhaps crossed with a NN, you might get a fair to fine capon. One way to find out!!!

In my head I want some cochin in there too... size and leg feathering.
I know I would need to breed back to the Polish to get the cresting developed, but would select for size as well over a few generations and see how I fared.

Wondering mostly where I need to start with the NN color...

 

[hellbender]

In my head I want some cochin in there too... size and leg feathering.
I know I would need to breed back to the Polish to get the cresting developed, but would select for size as well over a few generations and see how I fared.

Wondering mostly where I need to start with the NN color...

I have little understanding of color genetics in poultry but several who 'flock' here do!

 

[draye]

In my head I want some cochin in there too... size and leg feathering. 
I know I would need to breed back to the Polish to get the cresting developed, but would select for size as well over a few generations and see how I fared. 

Wondering mostly where I need to start with the NN color... 

Once you get a crest you usually will keep it on some of the offspring. Pretty easy to keep if you breed and keep crested offspring.

The crests are not giant on the crosses as in a Polish crest but you'll have some crests some a little more than others.

 

[Kassaundra]

Can I ask about the breeding on these... turken crosses?
I want Sliver Laced/Polish/Turken... Maybe feather footed too.
I know I'm nuts, but I imagine such a fun project would give me lots of eggs and plenty of culls to capon for decent eating.

I have both mottling and barring in my gene pool, from what I understand those two genetics mix into weird combos.

 

[Goosegrrl]

I have both mottling and barring in my gene pool, from what I understand those two genetics mix into weird combos.

Do you have any light(white) Colombian colored NNs?
*edit- more genetics reading(This is my first go with genetics... patience please) has indicated that the Silver gene(S) actually inhibits red expression and is an incomplete dominant, suggesting that a red type bird might just be OK. Both the Melanotic(M1) and pattern gene(Pg) are dominant. But I know that crossing a laced pattern with another color/pattern will often equal black chicks with neck leakage... still working out how to get back to Silver Laced.
Hmm... maybe birchen.

From what I'm reading on the lacing genetics that would be the best place to start... I think.
I'm a little scared to ask about this whim of a genetics project out in the general forums because I think that maybe NN lovers would be the only people to come even close to understanding why I might want to do it.

 

[hellbender]

Do you have any light(white) Colombian colored NNs?
*edit- more genetics reading(This is my first go with genetics... patience please) has indicated that the Silver gene(S) actually inhibits red expression and is an incomplete dominant, suggesting that a red type bird might just be OK. Both the Melanotic(M1) and pattern gene(Pg) are dominant. But I know that crossing a laced pattern with another color/pattern will often equal black chicks with neck leakage... still working out how to get back to Silver Laced.
Hmm... maybe birchen.

From what I'm reading on the lacing genetics that would be the best place to start... I think.
I'm a little scared to ask about this whim of a genetics project out in the general forums because I think that maybe NN lovers would be the only people to come even close to understanding why I might want to do it.

I believe I can honestly say, most of us don't really care what or why you want to do something. We all have our own little 'projects'.

 

[Goosegrrl]

Been playing with the chicken calculator...

... feeling better about his already.

 

[draye]

Do you have any light(white) Colombian colored NNs?
*edit- more genetics reading(This is my first go with genetics... patience please) has indicated that the Silver gene(S) actually inhibits red expression and is an incomplete dominant, suggesting that a red type bird might just be OK. Both the Melanotic(M1) and pattern gene(Pg) are dominant. But I know that crossing a laced pattern with another color/pattern will often equal black chicks with neck leakage... still working out how to get back to Silver Laced.

Hmm... maybe birchen.   


From what I'm reading on the lacing genetics that would be the best place to start... I think. 

I'm a little scared to ask about this whim of a genetics project out in the general forums because I think that maybe NN lovers would be the only people to come even close to understanding why I might want to do it.  

I've got a you g Columbian Naked Neck cockerel coning up.

Trying to figure out what to cross him with to create a line if Columbian NN's. this dude looks like a Columbian Plymouth Rock with a naked neck. It is not the barring like in the Delaware either.

I've got Wheaten, Blue Wheaten, Black, Red, Light Red (almost buff), dominant White/ Wheaten, Gold Birchen, and Bkue Gold Birchen.

 

[Kev]

Hey that's pretty good.

if you want laced tail like on polish, sebrights, you want birchen(ER).

ERER, DbDb, CoCo, PgPg, MlMl

if you want black tails- wyandottes- you want dark brown(eb).

ebeb, CoCo, PgPg, MlMl

Silver is sex linked... meaning roosters can be SS, Ss+ while hens can *only* be S- or s+-. Silver is the relatively easy part... the hardest part is getting all of the necessary genes for lacing into the same bird and then making them pure for all of them because a couple of them have a dose effect.

It will be so much easier if able to get rid of excess chicks and juveniles quickly.. because it is much more do-able if you hatch out large numbers of chicks(better if 40+ chicks in the second generation onwards) and try to raise the ones past first round of culls long enough to study the feather patterning and do the culls right there and raise the rest to proper age and then cull again. This is because the more genes you want in a bird, the harder it is.. lacing itself requires several genes and then has dose effect plus you want to introduce crest, possibly leg feathering all the while maintaining production quality. This translates to lots of chicks to have the best picks otherwise you might be forced to use not so great birds causing slow generational progress.

If you really want production- either meaty birds or great layers of large eggs, would suggest ditching the ornamental breeds... unfortunately cochins are ornamental and many lines of polish are also ornamental.. even though originially these were supposed to be pretty decent layers. For not so serious production project they will do fine though.

If you are able to get hands on good production NN, you will be allright with crossing polish over those BUT don't breed back to polish and their body type is rather dominant and you seem to want heavier, better producing birds so you'd be better off breeding the cross birds together and going from there.

It is true crest is semi dominant and you will be able to recognize birds with it, best to simply let it float along while you work on the lacing then breed good laced birds with semi-crests and you will get some fuller crests from this.

Be aware though, apparently there is some kind of barrier to getting the really large full crests outside the pure polish.. I tried for years to make polish in new colors= bbred, crele, wheaten etc and just could never get the big full crests back even when they were pure for it. I cannot remember seeing big or production type birds with very big crests.. the most they seem to attain is kind of a full sized 'helmet' like on Sulmtaler etc. I'm not sure why this is so....

90% of hatchery or production bred NN are black tail buffs or reds based on wheaten(eWh). Not very good for lacing purposes so you probably will just have to do this cross and weed out birds carrying wheaten in the later generations. If you are using a silver lace polish, it will provide all the necessary genetics, that is why you don't have to worry too terribly much about the color of the NN for now. Just get the best NN for your project and do this cross.