Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kev]

There were only two hens in that tin at the time. A Blue Red hen and the White hen.

I think there were only three to hatch. A Black Gold, a Blue Red, and the white one. She was solid white at hatch and developed the black flecks as she matured. Fairly positive the white one was her mother.

The mother, the white one, was a hen I bought at an auction do I know nothing of the background. Fairly certain it was not a splash because she looked a lot like a White Leghorn, she was a smaller hen than this pullet, the rooster had added size to his chicks.

The Cinnamon roosters mother I'm fairly certain was my Columbian hen, she was by the Salmon rooster out of a hen that was a odd color almost a Salmon Buff color, who I feel fairly certain was from a Black Tailed Buff NN. Of course there was Barred in her background also.

His dad was a Barred rooster who had a lot of Orange leakage, as in New Hampshire orange.

So you think the possibility is there for some pure whites from the cross?

was it silvery tinted white or a cream color like leghorn chick?

IF she is dominant white, with the color being leaks.. then the columbian roo is excellent pairing for her but also if you have a good solid black roo, he would be good, maybe even better for solid whites. Dominant white has strong effect on black but not so much on red/gold pigments. Essentially if you throw a DW on a solid black chicken it will become solid white.

However as for using black roo... is leg color important? If you want a yellow leg white, really have to use a barred roo as the barring will remove the black from the legs. Otherwise you end up with usually blue leg or green leg whites

 

[draye]

IF she is dominant white, with the color being leaks..  then the columbian roo is excellent pairing for her  but also if you have a good solid black roo, he would be good, maybe even better for solid whites.  Dominant white has strong effect on black but not so much on red/gold pigments. Essentially if you throw a DW on a solid black chicken it will become solid white.

However as for using black roo...  is leg color important? If you want a yellow leg white, really have to use a barred roo  as the barring will remove the black from the legs.  Otherwise you end up with usually blue leg or green leg whites

I really want the yellow legs. I think they fit the NN the best.

As I have no solid black roosters I think the current Roos is the best shot.

I do have, I hope, done eggs from a solid black NN hen in the incubator also. They will be sired by a Brown Red rooster. I only used him this once, but close enough if I need him back. Will this mating give me some solid black chicks?

Actually the Black hen is from the same hen line as the Cinnamon NN rooster. I'm going for a mating between them a little later in the year. They are something like 3/4 cousins or something in that order. Any way their mothers were half sisters and the grandmothers wee half sisters. So whatever tact figures out to. I guess I'm a little crazy trying to keel up with the pedigrees if my chickens. I don't advertise them as pedigreed though as part of the matings are purely guess work. I sort if match the chicks up with the hens that were available to which ever rooster they were with. But with the black hen I definitely know her parentage.

 

[Kassaundra]

Why do you say that?

And are yours double breasted? I would like to find a good broiler line of NN.

No my nn are not double breasted, the nn are just soooooo much easier to process.

 

[Kev]

I really want the yellow legs. I think they fit the NN the best.

What color are the white hen's and the roo's legs?


Quote:
Hum. As a rule, it is much easier to get solid black hens than roosters. With all the genes being exactly the same, the roo will show more color than the hen.. so you would be culling the roo but not the hen based on the visual not true genetics. That is the challenge for every one working with black chicken projects.

So maybe that black hen really is solid black.. or is not, only seems that way because she's a she.

Brown reds, birchens, black coppers etc are chickens without all the necessary genes and being pure for all to cover up the leaky areas.

So you are doing a cross of a roo obviously not pure or maybe missing some of the necessary genes with a hen that may or may not have them all. Best to assume most, maybe all offspring to show some color, especially on the roosters.

If you hit on a cockerel with no leak after 6 months, he is extremely valuable for black project. As for black pullets, keep them but don;t get TOO excited as you don't know their true genetics yet.

If you have a solid blue, those are also great for solid black chicken projects.

If you breed for 2 generations and the color is not going down on some cockerels, it is time to introduce a solid black as maybe the necessary genes simply are not present. For example there are pure breeding black breds, black coppers etc that will never throw solid blacks for this reason.

 

[DesertChic]

Thanks and yep.

Basically, the white rocks most likely are solid black under their white. So their genetics will help a lot with the color leakage issue- leakage should be reduced in the crosses but still variable. If they are recessive white, it usually does a pretty good job at covering up both black and gold pigments. In this case, there's a pretty good chance to get solid whites fairly easily.

I don't know if this is true... it's been said adding silver(what makes them black and white instead of black and red/gold) to whites reduces the brassiness in whites. For this claim, maybe Pepper would be the easiest route for sparkly whites. Another pro for Pepper is him being half australorp, so he is a 'proven' carrier for some of the helper genes necessary for solid black.. probably get some solid or near solid blacks out of him.

However, getting silver in whites is still possible with any rooster because it is also a good assumption the white rocks are silver, but it is also sex linked so only the boys will have it(like Pepper) so keeping only a son and breeding back to the rock is still a straightforward route.

With Pepper and again assuming the rocks are silver, then there will be silver in both sons and daughters. Pick out the ones with white leakage(avoid the yellowish tint on cockerels) and breed together or back to a white and the majority, maybe all if lucky will be pure silver.

If sparkly white is not a concern then pick whatever rooster you like the best. what color was Pepper's NN parent? If it was red/buff then Pepper is genetically half silver half gold.. that can cause the leaky color to take on a brassy color. His areas should be whiter if he was pure silver..

As for your dorkings are you wanting to involve them? do you know if recessive or dom white or is mostly white due to other gene combo?

Pepper and Dutch (the red and white one in the photo) had the same Buff + silver tailed father. There's a slight amount of brassiness in Pepper, but it's localized to his wings and not unpleasant to my eye. I'm not too concerned about a little brassiness. I just love the look of all white or mostly white NNs. I think they look elegant, and they're so hard to find that they practically seem like an exotic bird, LOL.

The Dorkings...they're just sort of here because they're good egg layers and I never got around to culling any of them. I thought I'd have to cull the largest of them, Zephyr, when she started eating eggs, but I discovered that she was only eating eggs that were showing weak shells and blood spots in the yolk. Since addressing that problem with diet changes she hasn't eaten a single egg. I actually have one of her fertile eggs in the incubator. I'm curious to see what the chick will look like, but I'm not thrilled with these birds and haven't had any real breeding plans for them. I do suspect that they'd make outstanding Coq au Vin.

 

[Kev]

Your last comment reminded me to do an update on the feather picking... adding the Costco chicken and rice cat food has stopped feather picking. I'm already seeing pin feathers growing out.

strangely, two hens have started molting, one very hard, like a fall molt. Not sure what is up with that.

Egg production has gone up but I can't be sure if it's due to animal protein being added or mere coincidence as it;s spring time... I'm pretty convinced it helped with the feather picking though.

 

[Kev]

Pepper and Dutch (the red and white one in the photo) had the same Buff + silver tailed father. There's a slight amount of brassiness in Pepper, but it's localized to his wings and not unpleasant to my eye. I'm not too concerned about a little brassiness. I just love the look of all white or mostly white NNs. I think they look elegant, and they're so hard to find that they practically seem like an exotic bird, LOL.

I've had whites in the past and liked the color combination. There also seems to be sort of a demand for them as I see requests for white NN now and then and the whites I had did sell pretty fast.

Pepper's brassy look probably has part to do with being half silver(from lorp) and gold from the father. Sometimes a silver crossed with gold will give clean looking silvers, other times they look "brassy", yet other times they get a nice light gold tone(as seen on Golden Phoenix for example) I'm not sure why.

Anyways... some people are bothered by the yellowing on a white rooster's pyle zones, some don't really care.. the ones who say they dislike it are the ones that mention putting in silver to get rid of this yellowing.

Pretty much just throwing everything I can think of regarding whites.. did you see my question about leg color though? Is there a certain leg color you;d like to see on the whites?

 

[Phill98]

@Kev, I also have one hen that started molting, don't know why, she molted before winter and now she is actually laying now.

As for black hens being solid, I figured something in bit older hens. I have two pure blacks. When they molt, these two stay pure black just a bit washed out. Three others that I have that are not pure for black also wash out during the molt, but they get brown, like chocolate color. And in my flock, whenever I hatch chicks, I know who is solid black, even hens, they always show some sign, I always look at tiny feathers around the eyes. If they are black and molt with black feathers, I know they are pure black.

About white ones, in one moment I had one pure dominant white hen and one pure recessive white one. Recessive white one has black/green legs and she always looked "whiter" then other girl that was all white too, but yellow legs that she had made her look plain, comparing her to recessive white one with dark legs that is white as snow.

Another question, can I get black legs on dominant white or white columbian? Currently I only have black hens and that recessive hen that have blacks legs. And the white one isn't laying and I think she will never be.

 

[draye]

What color are the white hen's and the roo's legs?



Hum.  As a rule, it is much easier to get solid black hens than roosters.  With all the genes being exactly the same, the roo will show more color than the hen..  so you would be culling the roo but not the hen based on the visual not true genetics.  That is the challenge for every one working with black chicken projects.

So maybe that black hen really is solid black.. or is not, only seems that way because she's a she.

Brown reds, birchens, black coppers etc are chickens without all the necessary genes and being pure for all to cover up the leaky areas.

So you are doing a cross of a roo obviously not pure or maybe missing some of the necessary genes with a hen that may or may not have them all.   Best to assume most, maybe all offspring to show some color, especially on the roosters.

If you hit on a cockerel with no leak after 6 months, he is extremely valuable for black project. As for black pullets, keep them but don;t get TOO excited as you don't know their true genetics yet.

If you have a solid blue, those are also great for solid black chicken projects.

If you breed for 2 generations and the color is not going down on some cockerels, it is time to introduce a solid black as maybe the necessary genes simply are not present.    For example there are pure breeding black breds, black coppers etc that will never throw solid blacks for this reason.

Thanks for all this informations.

I'm not sure how pure the black would be. It comes from a Black Jersey Giant with was her dad.

The mother of the rooster was also black as in 1/2 Black Jersey Giant also.

The black project isn't a main concern for me right now, but I've been trying to work it some.

The legs I'll have to check on the hen. I know the rooster has blue legs. This is really a gene that is present in my flock. Came from the Salmon rooster and his blood flows through most of the flock as a grandpa to most. I do have a couple of Blue Red Dplash pullets that have bright yellow legs, which I'm not sure where they came from. Looking back though maybe the EE in them. Most of the EE I bred from had greenish legs. Isn't green blue over yellow?

 

[KJaguar]

Take look at one of my solid white cockerels. He is 15 weeks old and 13.5 pounds. Waiting to see what size he would grow out to reach.