Naked Neck/Turken Thread

Yep, chick down is a pain. All the little variables- seriously it often goes like this If A then B then C unless D is present then XYZ however if L is present then OP....... also differing opinions, seeming contradictions.......... It does not help either that a specific statement is generally true but 'that one person has to bring in minor, ultra rare exception' that just confuses every reader just trying to get a handle on it.....

I agree it has nothing to do with gender. Tank definitely is wheaten and Co. Practically all hatchery stock NN are eWh eWh CoCo however you have some strong exceptions with Mystique(does not have Co) and Apoc had a black breast.. I am not sure how exactly that works, someone said that is Db(darkbrown)... but I wonder what about presence of Co... bascially Co 'likes' to clear the body of black pigment(eumelanin) so that seems a bit conflicting so one idea was maybe he did not have Co either if it really does suppress the black breast regardless of Db or whatever. Anyways the point is maybe Tank is something like eWheWh Coco+

by the way.. KazJaps REALLY knows her stuff and easily whips up references etc. Her word would be the final word really.

p.s edited this so tagging in case the original was already read... @FireAntFarmer
Yeah, it was REALLY well written, with photos. I think I'll spend more time over there when I can.
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Well, because he calls Columbian "e", for starters (pairing with Extended black, of "E").
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Maybe. Brain blew up, stopped reading for the moment.
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BTW, I finally got fed up with Puppy - clipped her wing tonight (all the flight feathers on one side except those first two, for looks - will cut those too if it doesn't work. We'll see if it stops her - she's been escaping out of her paddock REGULARLY for, like her entire adult life. I like her a lot, don't want her to end up dead over it. So, clip clip. Their roosts are high, but there are several step-jumps, so I think she'll be able to make it.

I finally realized today (on round up #2, right before bedtime) that if I had a regular routine for catching her, complete with new obstacles in the yard placed there just for that reason, it was time to act.
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She's apparently also taught Polly (the hatchery New Hampshire) to get out form the 6 ft fence as well. We'll see if she does again.

- Ant Farm
 
Okay so (eWh) is Wheaten, so what is the small e stand for? And does eWh have to be doubled?

I'm just trying to get a small grasp on this genetics stuff.

@Kev
 

In the early days, especially before genotyping was possible there were some mistakes made. They had to make best guesses by highly specific matings and see what comes out of them...

If Hutt lumped Co with the e series, that was a mistake. My best guess right now is the fact Co is 'invisible' on E and ER was one of those tricky things that can trip ya up. Erase(heh E) lumping Co with e. Co is completely separate with its own locus.




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Just the primaries, not the secondaries, right? Got to admit chickens are a little smarter than most give them credit.. even if that situation really is not the best thing for their survival.. just the figuring out how to get over and learning by watching....
 
Okay so (eWh) is Wheaten, so what is the small e stand for? And does eWh have to be doubled?

I'm just trying to get a small grasp on this genetics stuff.

@Kev

E is the name for the specific locus(a specific region on a chromosome) identified for a series of mutations. Kinda like a specific house number on a specific street on a chromosome map.

E locus is, iirc named after Extended black. Basically first discovered, first name sticks for rest of time.

you use "e" at the start to identify which locus you are talking about. As in e= we are talking about the house at 123 Extended Street.

There are several potential individuals(mutations) who may reside at 123 Extended St. They are: E, ER, eWh, e+, eb. (Extended black, Birchen, red duckwing, partridge/dark brown)

So.... eWh is Mr. Wheaten, located at 123 Extended St. (wondering if this imagery helps?)

Actually, two extra things.... capital lettering means a mutation gene that is dominant over the wild type(the common/original colors/genes found in the wild animals). Lowercase means recessive to wild type. This is why Na for naked neck,, it is dominant over non-naked neck.

The second thing, a locus can have several mutations, E, ER, eWh and eb are excellent examples of this. How to show their dominance order? one way was to superscript them. A big challenge to do that on most websites... for a while E^R, E^Wh was attempted but it;s a bit cumbersome so the ^ was dropped and it became ER,eWh. I am not sure why it's lowercase e for wheaten though as it is dominant over red duckwing.

extra fun fact/theory... Birchen(ER) was the "first mutation" at the e locus. Then there was a mutation of the Birchen gene, resulting in the Exteneded black(E). Then there was a mutation of the E gene resulting in... partridge(eb). The most recessive gene and not "black" at all..

A mutation of a mutation and then a mutation of that. Funny eh?
 
E is the name for the specific locus(a specific region on a chromosome) identified for a series of mutations.  Kinda like a specific house number on a specific  street on a chromosome map.

E locus is, iirc named after Extended black.  Basically first discovered, first name sticks for rest of time. 

you use "e" at the start to identify which locus you are talking about. As in e= we are talking about the house at  123 Extended Street.

There are several potential individuals(mutations) who may reside at 123 Extended St.  They are: E, ER, eWh, e+, eb.   (Extended black, Birchen, red duckwing, partridge/dark brown) 

So....   eWh is Mr. Wheaten, located at 123 Extended St.  (wondering if this imagery helps?)

Actually, two extra things.... capital lettering means a mutation gene that is dominant over the wild type(the common/original colors/genes found in the wild animals). Lowercase means recessive to wild type.  This is why Na for naked neck,, it is dominant over non-naked neck.

The second thing, a locus can have several mutations, E, ER, eWh and eb are excellent examples of this.  How to show their dominance order?  one way was to superscript them. A big challenge to do that on most websites...   for a while E^R, E^Wh was attempted but it;s a bit cumbersome so the ^ was dropped and it became ER,eWh.   I am not sure why it's lowercase e for wheaten though as it is dominant over red duckwing.

extra fun fact/theory... Birchen(ER) was the "first mutation" at the e locus.  Then there was a mutation of the Birchen gene, resulting in the Exteneded black(E).  Then there was a mutation of the E gene resulting in...  partridge(eb). The most recessive gene and not "black" at all..

A mutation of a mutation and then a mutation of that. Funny eh?


The street address thing helps. It just my pea brain I have read it several times for it to soak in good.

Thanks for the explaination. And yes it does make since.
 
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In the early days, especially before genotyping was possible there were some mistakes made. They had to make best guesses by highly specific matings and see what comes out of them...

If Hutt lumped Co with the e series, that was a mistake. My best guess right now is the fact Co is 'invisible' on E and ER was one of those tricky things that can trip ya up. Erase(heh E) lumping Co with e. Co is completely separate with its own locus.

Quote: This is very helpful and very well explained.

Excellent, glad I could help.

Genes don't care about the human need for simplicity. That makes it hard to understand at first. But it also can make it fun to play with...
You really do need to write a "Chicken Genetics for Dummies" book. (Or maybe a couple articles?)
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- Ant Farm
 
Day 5 of a severe migraine, and I actually tried to make sense of all the color genetics posts you guys have been writing. Yeah...not happening.

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