Natural wormer experiment - if you have a duck or chicken with worms come to this thread

[casportpony]

Quote: My dog/cat vet isn't interested in making money. Of course he charges an exam fee, but he doesn't insist that I buy medications from him, he's quite willing to write prescriptions that can be filled at a pharmacy. Same with my avian vet, she charges $68 to examine 4 birds, spends at least an hour with me, and sends me on my way with prescriptions that I can get filled for less at a pharmacy. Of course I'm more than willing to buy the drugs from them if they need to start treatment right way. Did you know that most vets don't make that much on the drugs they sell?

All chemical wormers that I know about *are* available *without* a prescription, so where is this money making op?

Ask your vet if she thinks you should suggest that other people feed garlic to their animals. Ask her if it's okay to feed it to your animals...

-Kathy

 

[DiamondSwan]

My dog/cat vet isn't interested in making money. Of course he charges an exam fee, but he doesn't insist that I buy medications from him, he's quite willing to write prescriptions that can be filled at a pharmacy. Same with my avian vet, she charges $68 to examine 4 birds, spends at least an hour with me, and sends me on my way with prescriptions that I can get filled for less at a pharmacy. Of course I'm more than willing to buy the drugs from them if they need to start treatment right way. Did you know that most vets don't make that much on the drugs they sell?

All chemical wormers that I know about *are* available *without* a prescription, so where is this money making op?

Ask your vet if she thinks you should suggest that other people feed garlic to their animals. Ask her if it's okay to feed it to your animals...

-Kathy

Every vet is different. My vet makes money off of the medications, but she usually makes it a little cheaper to fit our budget, but not much. Also, it adds up with other customers. Wormer medications are more expensive, and effect eggs, that's why I'm trying to find an alternative solution. I'll talk to my vet and see what she thinks.

 

[DiamondSwan]

I care so much for the fluffy little birdies, and I want to find the best option that's healthiest for them, and share that solution with other people. That's my motivation, and I am determined to find that solution.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Of course your vet make money on medications, but she doesn't make that much. Think about how much it costs to run her business and all her overhead. Salaries for all employees, her salary, which is more that what they make per hour. Liability insurance, classes she has to take to stay current, supplies, water, electricity, rent or mortgage.

How much did she charge for the antibiotics when you saw her?

As for alternative to chemical wormers, many people have posted or written about them, but none have any proof that they work.

I tried something similar with DE... people said it would treat lice, so I bought a 40 pound bag of the food grade stuff, put it everywhere, but my birds still got lice. Next I covered the birds with the powder, and guess what? They still had lice.

-Kathy

 

[DiamondSwan]

Doctors do what they were trained to do, and don't know any different. They weren't trained to be a holistic Doctor. Medications, wormers, and the like for people and humans, are more harmful than anything good they can ever do. Tylenol, the most commen pain relief that has been used on children for years, can cause serious liver damage and even death, even when used correctly. "A God-given plant can't be any worse than a chemical developed in a lab." Our duckies and chickens need something better than chemicals made by humans.

~Destiny


(Edited to add capital "G" to "God.")

 

[casportpony]

Doctors do what they were trained to do, and don't know any different. They weren't trained to be a holistic Doctor. Medications, wormers, and the like for people and humans, are more harmful than anything good they can ever do. Tylenol, the most commen pain relief that has been used on children for years, can cause serious liver damage and even death, even when used correctly. "A god-given plant can't be any worse than a chemical developed in a lab." Our duckies and chickens need something better than chemicals made by humans.

~Destiny

I suggest then that you find a holistic vet and work with them. Have them do some fecals and blood work on your birds and dogs, then come up with a plan to treat whatever they have. After treatment, repeat lab work, and publish your results.

BTW, if you think a "God-given" plant can't be any worse than chemicals developed in a lab, I think you need to do more research, 'cause I can think of *many*.

Let me tell you some stories...

Many years ago, when I had my horses at a boarding stable, tree companies used to bring in their ground up tree trimmings for people to use as bedding. A new batch came in one day, the next day there were six dead horses!

Last year a farm in CA lost 20 horses from feeding 1st cutting alfalfa. Cause of death was a weed in the hay.

Oleander... I didn't have her necropsied, but I think I lost a calf to oleander poisoning.

Rhubarb, Avodado, Apple Seeds, the list is quite long. Have you ever seen the list of God-given plants that can be toxic to birds? I guarantee you, that when used properly, the types of chemical wormers that I use are safe.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

I care so much for the fluffy little birdies, and I want to find the best option that's healthiest for them, and share that solution with other people. That's my motivation, and I am determined to find that solution.

Find a vet you like and work with them.

-Kathy

 

[DiamondSwan]

I suggest then that you find a holistic vet and work with them. Have them do some fecals and blood work on your birds and dogs, then come up with a plan to treat whatever they have. After treatment, repeat lab work, and publish your results.

BTW, if you think a "God-given" plant can't be any worse than chemicals developed in a lab, I think you need to do more research, 'cause I can think of *many*.

Let me tell you some stories...

Many years ago, when I had my horses at a boarding stable, tree companies used to bring in their ground up tree trimmings for people to use as bedding. A new batch came in one day, the next day there were six dead horses!

Last year a farm in CA lost 20 horses from feeding 1st cutting alfalfa. Cause of death was a weed in the hay.

Oleander... I didn't have her necropsied, but I think I lost a calf to oleander poisoning.

Rhubarb, Avodado, Apple Seeds, the list is quite long. Have you ever seen the list of God-given plants that can be toxic to birds? I guarantee you, that when used properly, the types of chemical wormers that I use are safe.

-Kathy

I know there is some stuff that can't be given to animals, but that doesn't mean "scientically proven" medications and the like are any better. I guarantee you, that garlic and ACV are safe. I've used it on my chicks for 6 weeks, and the rest of my flock for months, and none of them have died from it, gotten worms, or any other illnesses. Fecal tests are the only way to convince you, but my experience proves to me, that many natural remedies are safe, and affective. They are a lifesaver to have around. Other people can decide if they want to try it or not. I'm sorry about your horses.

 

[MrsBrooke]

MrsB

 

[ChickenTDuck1234321]

I did a literature source last night, because I felt like I should learn a little more about your stance and see if I can find any validity beyond your anecdotal evidence.
I would not recommend feeding a diet of onion or garlic to birds. But yes, allium species do have some scientific evidence to helping when fed at KNOWN levels. These are published, peer-reviewed scientific articles.
Allium aids in lead toxicity
Allium aids in growth promotion - This is in broilers, not layers
Allium aids in deworming SHEEP - Sheep are not poultry. That kind of logic is dangerous.

Nonetheless, as a poultry health professional. I have not and will not ever charge to consult a backyard flock; I could; I choose not to. I have not made a dime off of selling medication. I have done countless necropsies for free; I have taken calls at all hours of the day, night, weekend and holidays to help backyard people with not making one cent off of the 30 minute consult. Veterinarians are taught and trained to think; we are not taught rote memorization, and I resent that sentiment that they do this to make money off of selling medication-- selling corrid will not put a dent in over $100,000 worth of loans. I love poultry, and I have dedicated my life to it. I will never claim to be a nutritionist, but I have seen way too many people go way too far with natural, holistic cures. I admire your willingness to defend your view. It's admirable, but I using this kind of advice as "curative" is dangerous.

I wish you the best in your endeavors and treatments.