Need Good Ol' Chicken Dog

[ConPollos]

I've been looking for a dog to protect the 'free range' flock, but keep getting murderers instead.  I've been to the pound twice now, trying to kill two birds with one stone...no pun intended.  When I get them at the pound, I usually get young pups.  I raise them with the chickens, feed them together and just make sure they're used to the chickens.  They always turn on them as soon as they're big enough.  Last attempt, I got a mixed breed Great Pyrenees that was doing really well.  Last week we had a couple of our ducks wandering around the yard acting funny.  Upon inspection they had both been badly hurt.  We tried to treat them and clean them but the maggots were too far invested, and the ducks died the second night.  It didn't really look like something the dog would've done, but we were still a little leery.  Well, this morning when I went out to greet the birds and feed everyone, there was the pup sitting over one of my full grown chickens.  She was already dead and the pup was chewing on her.  Again, I'm not 100% it was the girl pup, but when are you ever 100% without seeing the act?  Anyway, she has to go too now and it's really a shame because she is a really smart and beautiful dog.

The reason for my post is, I NEED A GOOD CHICKEN DOG!!!  Does anyone have any recommendations on training a dog for such a job?  I know there are breed specifically bred for such jobs, but I really don't have the money to be buying $500+ dogs.  Please help!

I've read several articles that said it can take two years to train a livestock guardian dog to be trustworthy around chickens.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Identify them for us. I have searched and could not find well substantiated reference to any dog breeds so employed. Closest I saw where what appeared to be pariah dogs a Greek breed called the Alopekis.


I use German Pointers in exactly the same capacity as the Alopekis is considered be used for historically. Biggest difference is my dogs are able to handle Coyotes and often other dogs the Alopekis is too small to handle.

One dog breed originally bred to protect chickens, but more often kept as a pet nowadays, is the Havanese, from Cuba. You may have heard of it. Historically it was used to protect chickens, ducks and geese (and possibly turkeys). It is a tiny dog and was expected to herd birds home if they wandered too far. It is rarely used for poultry protection nowadays but still retains its instincts. It has little prey drive and strong herding instincts.


If you like I can look in some of my dog books for more. I know there are several Asian breeds, but they do not have English names, so I cannot recall what they are called at the moment.

 

[centrarchid]

What predators challenged poultry keepers in Cuba? The 3-foot tall ground dwelling owls were wiped out well before arrival of Europeans and their dogs. Asia seems more plausible although parties I have explored the issue with are not aware of any breeds as we in the west no them. Dogs used for poultry guarding if still present are of the pariah type I mentioned previously.;

 

[ConPollos]

What predators challenged poultry keepers in Cuba? The 3-foot tall ground dwelling owls were wiped out well before arrival of Europeans and their dogs. Asia seems more plausible although parties I have explored the issue with are not aware of any breeds as we in the west no them. Dogs used for poultry guarding if still present are of the pariah type I mentioned previously.;

Native Americans had dogs long before the Europeans brought more dogs over, including in Florida and Louisiana, so the natives in Cuba probably had dogs too since it's close to Florida.

 

[centrarchid]

The presence of dogs prior to European colonization known. Only poultry I recall that were produced in some places for certain where Turkeys and what would be ancestors of the current Muscovy Duck. Chickens alleged to be cultured by Inca although studies not conclusive yet on that. Where the dogs used to protect poultry?

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Predators, by my guess, were probably rats, snakes, perhaps weasels or lizards if they have them there. You mentioned the Alopekis. I believe that dog is on the small side, yet it was expected to kill fox. As long as a little dog has that "spirit" they can fight off and intimidate larger animals... not coyotes, true, but other predators.

I am still searching my books for the Asian breeds. Some of their names seems so similar, I get them mixed up frequently. I'm getting there though...

There are also many breeds that were bred to be able to herd and/or protect poultry but not specifically poultry. These dogs were primarily used for sheep or other livestock but were expected to work chickens, ducks, etc. as well. The Puli and Pumi, two inter-related Hungarian breeds, are known for their ability to herd ducks and chickens. Of course, we must be sure not to mistake herding for guardianship, as they are very separate tasks. Some breeds do both, but not all.

Puli:


Note the thick "Dreadlocks." If a large predator grabs a puli, all it gets is fur.



These dogs have odd-shaped ears I think. The Puli and Pumi are closely related. Sometimes a Puli gives birth to a Pumi and vice-versa.

And here is the alopekis, from Ancient Greece...


This is one breed that is probably the smallest non-herding LGD out there, as far as I can tell.

 

[centrarchid]

We need to not forget dual purpose use of hunting dogs as protectors of livestock. Good hunting dogs go only after what they are supposed go after and that does not include chickens nor other livestock. Many people where I am from kept free-range game fowl, coonhounds and fox hounds. We are prone to get overly concerned about dogs that serve only one function which is a modern concept. Also herding chickens is not a good investment of time owing to how the chickens natural behavior is not suited for such. I keep chickens over a large area and to herd with a dog or otherwise would be a fools errand. Most poultry keepers will call them in and that works particularly well with birds getting a big part of their eats by foraging.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Yes there are plenty of dogs meant to be "all around farm dogs." Most of these, if classified, are put in the herding or hunting/sporting category.

The presence of dogs prior to European colonization known. Only poultry I recall that were produced in some places for certain where Turkeys and what would be ancestors of the current Muscovy Duck. Chickens alleged to be cultured by Inca although studies not conclusive yet on that. Where the dogs used to protect poultry?

Dogs were used by Native Americans for several purposes, mostly for pulling sled, for meat, for their fur. We often think of these as half-domestic wolfdogs but some were quite developed and specialized. For example, the Salish Wool Dog was bred and raised solely for its white fur. It was kept confined and fed a special diet. Sadly it is now extinct.

I do not know any dogs used by pre-Columbian-contact Native Americans specifically for protecting poultry. More likely dogs were expected to protect the general area/territory and some of his master's possessions. We do know it was very normal to tie up dogs and leave them to protect certain items, so if there were chickens/muscovys/turkeys being reared, dogs probably were tied up nearby to protect them. Natives kept other animals like skunks for pest control so it seems likely.

Asia seems more plausible although parties I have explored the issue with are not aware of any breeds as we in the west no them. Dogs used for poultry guarding if still present are of the pariah type I mentioned previously.;

Could you tell me what you mean by "breeds as we in the west know them" and "pariah type." I have an idea of what you mean but want to be clear.

 

[centrarchid]

We in the west over the last couple hundred years or so got on this kick about breeds with very limited variation within each. Control over breeding very tight and dogs very much confined.


Pariah / village dogs did their own mate selection and are not often confined. Variations within pariah dogs more a function of location than concerted selective efforts by humans. Same dogs get into trouble when harming stock but likely enjoy some accommodation by people that like a given dog. It does not take much effort to train such dogs to leave stock alone yet they will go after smaller predators and provide alarm when larger predators visit.

 

[nzpouter]

no.... it means you need to keep your pup under supervision and well exercised. reprimand him every single time he's trying to chase or showing sign that he's about to chase... and lastly get your chickens used to his presence so they don't start running and tempt him to start the chase...