Need help!The City of Fenton, MI says I need to get rid of my chckens

[MiddleChild]

Again, great philosophy. However, I have a full-time job, a side business, rental properties, family responsibilities, bees, chickens, gardens, and a sick spouse. There are other demands on my time, not to mention the smooth running of my life. If you have the time to do all this, then fine. I'll support you with letters when you're arrested, votes if you run for office, etc. etc. But I can't do it right now.

 

[Normark]

Hey Diana

Love your Older work BTW
"Upside Down You're turning Me"

LOL

Quote:
I won't say Brave,, I would say I'm merely Standing Firm and Exercising my Absolute rights as a Free Man, Born in a "Free Country" to provide Safe, Healthy and Nutritious Food for my family. There is no Question that my chickens are Safer,Healthier and more Nutritious than what I can buy,, so that is my Absolute Right, that No one has the ability to control or deny me, or take away from me.

"A man's Home is his Castle" is not simply random words strung together, they have Meaning,,Legal Meaning.

It refers to "Castle Doctrine" and is based on Common Law.

Although the definition used here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Doesn't completely fit. I believe "Castle Doctrine" also protects you and your property from illegal trespass and protects your property rights. I'd have to research this more to see if it can be used.


Laws that are arbitrary Absolutely need to be Challenged and defeated.. Here is a perfect example of how this works....

Disallowing a Goat is an arbitrary law that has no meaning...

Exactly what is the difference between a Goat and a Dog ? If you are allowed a dog, you are allowed a goat, unless they can supply you with Significant Legitimate Difference. Conjecture need not apply.

This is how you bring the argument to them, Trap them into a Definition,, then Utterly Destroy their Argument using logic and reasoning. Once their argument has been Obliterated by being unjustifiable, they have absolutely no leg to stand on.

Force them into the Revolving door of Contradiction which they cannot lawfully Justify and the jig is up. Without a Legitimate lawful foothold it's over for them.

"Because" is Not an answer! and because they "Don't like it" isn't justifiable with out a legitimate reason. They have No legitimate reason, and when they fall back to Conjecture and "What If's" You'll have your proof that there is nothing legitimate to argue or complain about, which makes their stand arbitrary, unlawful and Incredibly Invalid.

When Logic and Reason Fail, Defy, Organize and Publicly Challenge.

You will run into Imbeciles, however I Guarantee if you educate and dispel the misconceptions to the general public, you will garner overwhelming support.

For the Complainers, ask them simply " Why Not ?". Then Destroy their argument with Fact. When they resort to Fantasy and "What If's" you know they are on the cusp of defeat, and only a complete idiot will continue to argue on the grounds of speculation.


Bills and Beaks

Eric

 

[Normark]

Hello Middle Child



Quote:
Thank you,, but I'm not planning on being arrested. I'm peaceful, non violent,, however Will defend my property and my belongings...

This inability for Non Compliance though is what binds us to Unjust Laws. Through Fear we are being Controlled, which by Definition makes it Fascism.

Appreciate the Support in Any way we can get it...

Thanks

Eric

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Eric, I was right with you until you got to the thistle part. Many areas, maybe yours, have noxious weed laws that say you have to get rid of the noxious weeds. They are generally non-native really bad guys that take over property and have little redeeming value. For us, Thistle, Knapweed and even Russian Olives are on the list. These are weeds that can and will run rampant on your neighbor's property if left to go to seed. It would be very polite for you to make sure your actions don't impact your neighbors, because what you do on your land may indeed negatively impact someone else. Here, if there is a compaint, they will send you notice to remove the noxious weed and if you do not by the deadline, they will hire a contractor to do it for you and send you the bill. I suspect if you threatened someone then you may incur hefty lawyer fees to defend your rights.

MalissaB, I wish you the best of luck today and dearly hope that you are allowed to apply for a variance and can keep your chickens! Please keep us posted.

 

[Normark]

Hello dretd

"Eric, I was right with you until you got to the thistle part."

Maybe you will reconsider as this post..

I counter your argument

"Many areas, maybe yours, have noxious weed"

Define " Noxious weed " ? What to you is a weed, to me is medicine, which I can support with fact


Thistle

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Thist...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Knapweed

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Knapw...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Russian Olive

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Russi...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I also propagate Mullein and Dandelion

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Mulli...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


One man's weed is another man's herb. I will not kill my dandelions because my neighbor merely dislikes them. They have value to me, and it's simply not my problem if he doesn't like them.


" laws that say you have to get rid of the noxious weeds."

As I've clearly shown, the law doesn't apply to me as I use them and value them as medicine.

" have little redeeming value"

I beg to differ.

" It would be very polite for you to make sure your actions don't impact your neighbors"

Polite Yes,, Obliged No.

" because what you do on your land may indeed negatively impact someone else."

They would actually first have to prove to me it is effecting them Negatively !!

"Here, if there is a compaint, they will send you notice to remove the noxious weed"

Here if there is a complaint, they're told politely to Get Stuffed.


"and if you do not by the deadline, they will hire a contractor to do it for you and send you the bill."

And here if anyone comes on my property without permission, contractor or whomever, if they don't leave they will be charged with trespassing . If they bring an Unauthorized (Authorization would be mine seeing it is my property) the equipment will be dismantled piece by piece as I see fit, and the operator given Ample warning for it's demise if not removed.

"I suspect if you threatened someone then you may incur hefty lawyer fees to defend your rights."


I don't threaten Anyone, and I don't need a lawyer to defend my rights..I'm capable of that on my own. What I'm doing is Warning,, Not Threatening. By entering my property without consent, they assume ALL Responsibility.

If they spray chemicals on or around my "Organic" property which can potentially cause myself or my Asthmatic children health problems I will be filing a Hefty law suit of my own.

I'm not saying go out and do whatever you want.. It must be done with reason, consideration and thought.

I also don't want to be an A-hole about it either,, but if I want to be,, I can...

Peace

Eric

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Eric, what you are saying is that you support anarchy: each person determines for himself what is right/wrong. That there is no rule of law. Just because you choose to disagree with a law does not mean that it is therefore invalid.

What is a noxious weed in one environment is not in another. But that is climatic and geographic, not your yard versus the yard next door. Introduced species, whether plant or animal, often have unintended/unforseen consequences, regardless of whether deliberately or accidentally introduced. In the correct environment, thistle is not noxious; in the wrong one it very definitely is. In Florida pepper trees are horribly invasive; in arid Arizona, they are not. That is why they are considered a noxious weed in Florida and a desirable tree in Arizona.

There are no doubt many navite, non-noxious plants that will serve your butterflies just as well as thistle.

 

[Normark]

Hello dretd

Just so you're clear where I stand...

If there is a legitimate reason and not merely contrived conjecture I would be willing to re-evaluate my position.

However if the complaint is based on presumption that my "weeds" are causing some type of Horrific problem, I would have to see some type of evidence that points to me..

If it was a neighbors legitimate health problem ie. Poison Ivy originating on my property causing my neighbor grief, it would be rid of and he wouldn't have to ask me twice.

We have a problem out here with city people buying up what was once farm land, then calling the police when they are farming at 1am, or complaining when the tractors stir up dust.

My answer is too bad,, move back to the city where you belong. What you have is a legitimate complaint which is unwarranted . Yes the tractors are loud. Yes the headlights shine in your windows, Yes the dust gets stirred up... However they knew that when they moved there...

That's like building a house next to a Race Track. Yes it's going to be noisy, Yes, you have chosen to build there.Case Closed.

Now keep in mind that this same argument cannot be transferred over to chickens, because any complaint unless legitimate(which there are no legitimate complaints) are all contrived and presumed.

Eric.

 

[Normark]

Hello Sosoran

"Eric, what you are saying is that you support anarchy"

First of all Define Anarchy. Your definition of it is Incorrect..

I am an Anarchist, and your definition of it couldn't be further from the truth.

What you believe to be "anarchy" is actually "chaos", and purposefully misrepresented as such.


" each person determines for himself what is right/wrong."

Incorrect!

" That there is no rule of law"

Incorrect! (Laughing)

" Just because you choose to disagree with a law does not mean that it is therefore invalid."

If the law holds no legitimacy, then it is Arbitrary which invalidates it's entire premise


Anarchists abide by Common Law, with a few exceptions as in any other group of people.

The 10 Commandments are based on Common Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

To "Cause No Harm " to Another is a Huge part of what we believe and how we live our lives.. Anything else is a purposeful misrepresentation and misconception.

"What is a noxious weed in one environment is not in another. But that is climatic and geographic, not your yard versus the yard next door."

Meaningless to this discussion.

" Introduced species, whether plant or animal, often have unintended/unforseen consequences, regardless of whether deliberately or accidentally introduced.""

Not my problem. I have not introduced Accidentally not purposefully nothing that wasn't already there. The direction of this discussion is headed towards Apples and Oranges.


" In the correct environment, thistle is not noxious; in the wrong one it very definitely is."

As far as I'm concerned call it what you like..However I consider it valuable and to me a Non Issue.Whether I remove it or Grow it, it's Still going to be there.. It's like shoveling quicksand..Pointless . I have learned to adapt to it.

Milkweed is classified as a "noxious weed". Tell that to the Monarchs that feed from the plants that I purposefully grow. I'd like to see Anyone try and stop me from growing them... Each plant has a purpose.

" In Florida pepper trees are horribly invasive; in arid Arizona, they are not. That is why they are considered a noxious weed in Florida and a desirable tree in Arizona."

I understand all of that.

"There are no doubt many navite, non-noxious plants that will serve your butterflies just as well as thistle."

Who Exactly Determines that but the Butterfly ??

Prove that my Thistles are harmful and effect your life Negatively ?

Prove that my Chickens are harmful and effect your life Negatively ?

Prove that my Goat is harmful and effects you life Negatively?

Prove that my ( insert animal here ) is harmful and effects you life Negatively?

Without proof the complaint and or argument is Hollow, thus Invalid. Nothing but Opinion.

See what I'm getting at ??

You Cannot use Presumption to Determine what should and shouldn't be...

Peace

Eric

 

[dretd]

Quote:
So the bad neighbor (it happened to be the city's drainage area) let the thistles go so seed, which drifted en masse onto my property and lawn. Like you, I don't like using a lot of herbicides and even if I do the thistle tops dry up and become very prickly. Concentrated vinegar has the same result but doesn't kill and hand pulling is very tedious and frequently ineffective as well. I don't know if you consider this to be a problem, but it certainly is one in my backyard:

PS: I like dandelions, have many in my yard, and they are not a noxious weed around here.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

A quick google of "definition of anarchy" yielded (bold added for emphasis):

an·ar·chyNoun/ˈanərkē/1. A state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
2. Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal. More »
Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster

anarchy - definition of anarchy by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/anarchy - CachedSimilar
Absence of any form of political authority. 2. Political disorder and confusion. 3. Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose. ...


Anarchy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy - CachedSimilar
a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder

Anarchy | Define Anarchy at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/anarchy - CachedSimilar
a state of society without government or law. 2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control​