Need Help With Sick Egyptian Fayoumi Hen

[microchick]

Hi everyone. After 8 years of keeping chickens, battling Marek's Disease, I thought I'd dealt with just about everything chickens could throw at me when it comes to illnesses.

Last week I had a small bantam cross rooster present with a really swollen crop and copious amounts of nasty yellow fluid flowing from his mouth when I picked him up.

Sour Crop? That was may first thought. I 'vomited' him till his crop was empty then started him on sour crop treatment. He had one dose of Miconazole and I put him in my brooder cage in my feed room where I could keep an eye on him.

He was very lethargic. Couldn't stand. Couldn't hold his head up. Slept with his beak resting on the straw and his comb became progressively darker till it was almost black. His crop remained empty but he continued to decline until I decided to end it for him.

This past Friday I had a 3 year old EF hen present with the same symptoms. Great. Fluffed, lethargic, squishy water filled crop and when she jumped up onto the pop door ledge she had copious foul smelling yellow fluid flow out of her beak.

When I picked her up there was literally a fountain of this fluid coming out of her. I got her drained, brought her in figuring sour crop again. Started her and the whole flock on water with medicinal copper added along with apple cider vinegar and started her on miconazole twice a day.

Saturday and Sunday she held her ground. Won't eat won't drink, lethargic and weak and VERY thin. Yesterday I started her on liquified scrambled egg with probiotics mixed in and she did have enough energy to struggle with me and did swallow what I got into her but this morning she had fluid again in her crop.

I vomited her again and got on line and started reading. Read that capillary worms can cause sour crop. We have had a very wet spring so anything is possible. This morning I gave her a dose of Safe Guard. She will drink when I place the syringe I use on the tip of her beak and slowly depress the plunger giving her time to swallow. She is so weak though that I am desperate to get some nourishment into her.

I mixed a slurry of chick starter and made balls that I could pop into her mouth and she will swallow them. She just won't eat or drink on her own. And now her comb is starting to darken like the roosters did and she continues to weaken.

Oh! And more alarming. She has only pooped once in three days. I have been giving her 6 ccs of water every four hours but frankly I am going to lose this bird if I don't pull a magic rabbit out of my hat as far as treating her is concerned. I hate to think what is happening to her kidneys.

So @pennyJo1960 @casportpony, @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive I need your help and experience. What else can I do that I've missed?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm so sorry about your rooster and now your hen

Any chance they ate something moldy or rotten?
Have you bought new feed recently?

You're doing the treatments I would try.
I'd almost try a flush and see if that helps, they can be dehydrating, so follow up with fluids the best you can. With her pooping only once in 3 days, I fear she's already shut down or she may have a blockage.

Are you able to tube or syringe some fluids into her?

I'm tagging in @azygous @dawg53 @coach723 @speckledhen and @seminolewind as well. Hopefully someone has some ideas.

I'm so very sorry.

The rooster with his beak resting in the straw, reminds me of Botulism. But Botulism symptoms supposedly progress in a certain way. See below.
""Leg weakness and paresis that progress to flaccid paralysis of the legs, wings, neck, and eyelids are characteristic clinical signs. “Limberneck,” the common name for botulism in birds, comes from the neck paralysis typically seen in affected birds. Signs in broiler chickens may also include ruffled or quivering feathers, feathers that are easily pulled out, labored breathing, and sometimes diarrhea with excess urates in loose droppings.

Severely affected birds are in ventral recumbency on the floor with their eyes partially or completely closed and neck outstretched. They are unable to lift or hold their neck up and cannot raise their eyelids because of the flaccid paralysis that develops. Affected birds may have their legs extended behind them, because they are unable to pull them into a normal sitting position.""
Ref: https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/botulism/botulism-in-poultry?query=botulism

 

[pennyJo1960]

Hey Sis so like he said do this full flush in the morning.

 

[microchick]

Thanks @Wyorp Rock and @pennyJo1960.

No to my knowledge they haven't eaten anything other than what I feed them.

Food is kept dry. No mold and no free ranging. We have had a lot of rain and until recently chilly temps.

She will drink water from the hub of a syringe. I put it against the tip of her beak and slowly depress it and she drinks it as if using a nipple. But I have not seen her drink on her own.

I have a flock of approximately 50 birds and these are the only two birds affected so far.

At first I suspected a Candidia Outbreak due to all the rain so I have been adding copper and apple cider vinegar to their water just in case.

Frankly I am out of ideas. I held her in my lap tonight to give her water and was shocked at how little she weighs.

 

[speckledhen]

I'm not sure I can help much, but the head on the ground does remind me of botulism, as Wyorp said, which they can get from eating maggots, among other things. And it also seems fungal, perhaps, from the yellow liquid, but I have never experienced anything like you're describing, not exactly. You seem to be doing the right things. Of course, almost all crop issues are generally symptoms of a deeper issue; in your case, it's still a mystery, unfortunately. Sometimes, you just don't figure it out.
My big Brahma rooster seemed to be close to death in 2019, rallied, had a relapse, etc, and all his symptoms pointed to lead poisoning, oddly enough. We couldn't figure out how he would get lead poisoning. All I could think of was the former owner had been a hobby shooter and there were bullet casings all over this place when we moved in 20 years ago and we're still finding them, but why he'd eat any of those and how he'd get lead poisoning from a couple of those even if he did ingest them if he did would be a mystery. There was no lead paint here. He slowly recovered with supportive care, but we still have no idea what happened to him and he's with us at 6 years old. I've seen some weird things in the 17 years I've had chickens, but nothing exactly like you're describing.
I'm glad this issue is limited to just two of your flock, but I know it's very stressful. All you can do is perhaps pay for a necropsy on one of the birds if you really need to know the true cause. I hope it doesn't happen with others. And I'm sorry I can't be more help.

 

[coach723]

Did you open up the roo that passed, to see what was going on? The only bird I've had that presented like this, crop would not empty, fluid filled, everything came back up no matter what I tried to give her, one abnormal dropping in 3 days, very thin, dehydrated, weak, etc, I treated for sour crop and impaction to no avail. Upon opening her up it was visceral Marek's, tumors everywhere and the intestines were severely effected by tumors. Digestion just stopped, everything stopped moving. I know your hen is an EF, supposedly more resistant to Marek's, I don't know if that's a 100% guarantee or not. I've personally found crop issues to be the most frustrating and the most difficult to know what really happened until necropsy, sadly. The only birds I've had recover from crop back ups were caused by parasites, roundworms in my case. All the other causes, cancer, reproductive problems, congenital defect in one case, were ultimately found to be not treatable upon necropsy, though I always try. Another thought is hardware disease, which happens in the gizzard and can also stop everything.

 

[microchick]

I'm not sure I can help much, but the head on the ground does remind me of botulism, as Wyorp said, which they can get from eating maggots, among other things. And it also seems fungal, perhaps, from the yellow liquid, but I have never experienced anything like you're describing, not exactly. You seem to be doing the right things. Of course, almost all crop issues are generally symptoms of a deeper issue; in your case, it's still a mystery, unfortunately. Sometimes, you just don't figure it out.
My big Brahma rooster seemed to be close to death in 2019, rallied, had a relapse, etc, and all his symptoms pointed to lead poisoning, oddly enough. We couldn't figure out how he would get lead poisoning. All I could think of was the former owner had been a hobby shooter and there were bullet casings all over this place when we moved in 20 years ago and we're still finding them, but why he'd eat any of those and how he'd get lead poisoning from a couple of those even if he did ingest them if he did would be a mystery. There was no lead paint here. He slowly recovered with supportive care, but we still have no idea what happened to him and he's with us at 6 years old. I've seen some weird things in the 17 years I've had chickens, but nothing exactly like you're describing.
I'm glad this issue is limited to just two of your flock, but I know it's very stressful. All you can do is perhaps pay for a necropsy on one of the birds if you really need to know the true cause. I hope it doesn't happen with others. And I'm sorry I can't be more help.

Thank you for the good advice, Speckled. They have been scratching around a compost pile of old bedding so yes, they could have been eating maggots. I had cleaned the coop but hadn't been able to move the old bedding out of the run due to wet conditions. They spent a week digging around in it for worms and bugs so it is possible they were eating maggots also.

But they were all scratching around in it which is the puzzle.

I may have a solution to your lead poisoning in your bird. He was probably eating shrapnel from lead bullets around an area where a target was sitting. Bullets hit and often times shatter depending on what the target is. If the target is a metal gong the bullets are going to 'splatter' into small pieces that would be easy for a grazing bird to pick up.

My girl is still with me this morning and actually stood up when i touched her without falling over. I looked up the treatment for Botulism and I am going to start her on either penicillin or teramycin this morning to cover that possibility. But whether she is slightly better this morning due to the worming yesterday or whatever she is suffering from is wearing off I don't know but in for a penny and in for a pound as they say.

 

[microchick]

Did you open up the roo that passed, to see what was going on? The only bird I've had that presented like this, crop would not empty, fluid filled, everything came back up no matter what I tried to give her, one abnormal dropping in 3 days, very thin, dehydrated, weak, etc, I treated for sour crop and impaction to no avail. Upon opening her up it was visceral Marek's, tumors everywhere and the intestines were severely effected by tumors. Digestion just stopped, everything stopped moving. I know your hen is an EF, supposedly more resistant to Marek's, I don't know if that's a 100% guarantee or not. I've personally found crop issues to be the most frustrating and the most difficult to know what really happened until necropsy, sadly. The only birds I've had recover from crop back ups were caused by parasites, roundworms in my case. All the other causes, cancer, reproductive problems, congenital defect in one case, were ultimately found to be not treatable upon necropsy, though I always try. Another thought is hardware disease, which happens in the gizzard and can also stop everything.

No I didn't open him up. Prolly should have but didn't. I just figured sour crop and left it as being an isolated incident until this current case popped up.

I have had Marek's in my flock but (knock on wood) haven't had an active case in four years now so let's put it this way, I HOPE that isn't what it is.

I lost a EF hen early on to what I later suspected was parasite load. She presented similarly only without the crop issues.

So basically the only base I haven't touched is the possible botulism one that could be from them scratching around the compost bedding pile after it rained. I will start antibiotics on her this morning and continue the supportive care. Plus get out and rake up the run good and see if there are any maggots out there in the debris.

Thanks for giving me something else to consider and try, everyone.

 

[microchick]

I gave her a dose of Teravet tetracycline (not teramycin) just incase I am dealing with botulism but ..... she is now standing and more alert. While I had her in my lap her head was up and looking around and she definitely wasn't happy with me when I dropped chick starter balls into her mouth.

At this point in time I wondering if I am dealing with a heavy parasite load.

She isn't having any trouble swallowing, no limp neck and she appears at this point in time to be stronger after I dosed her with safe guard yesterday. Also her crop feels 'firmer' and not as mushy as it did yesterday.

While they have been digging around in the composting litter and undoubtedly eating maggots, they have also been eating a large amount of earthworms thanks to the wet spring and summer we have been having. Aren't earth worms noted for capillary worm infestations?

Tonight I'm going to dose all the Fayoumis and do a breast bone check on all of the birds just to see how they are doing weight wise. Also going to work on getting food down her so I can get her digestive systems and kidneys working again.

Now I wait to see what happens next.

 

[coach723]

I think some types of capillaria can be picked up via earthworm, others, just by picking in the soil or bedding that has the eggs. When my issue has been worms, they have usually perked up within 48 hours, but I've had them take as much as a week before digestion seemed to be normal again, crop emptying completely and droppings looking normal, eating and drinking well on their own. A probiotic might help once things get moving again, depends on which capillaria you are dealing with, if that's what it is. Some of them affect the crop and esophagus and some have impact lower down in the digestive tract. If she recovers and it seems like this was the issue, I personally would go ahead and worm them all.