Need immediate help to save juvenile roo

[Anela]

If he has Marek's you are putting the rest of your flock at risk since they haven't been vaccinated for it.

-Kathy

Well, since I don't have a flock I guess that won't be a problem.

As I've stated I have approx. 3 week old chicks that are in a brooder. They wouldn't be integrated with Elvis until they are 4-5 months old -- which is 3-4 months away.

The rest of the poultry on my 4 acre property belong to my landlord. There is over an acre between them and Elvis with no chance of interaction.

 

[casportpony]

Well, since I don't have a flock I guess that won't be a problem.

As I've stated I have approx. 3 week old chicks that are in a brooder. They wouldn't be integrated with Elvis until they are 4-5 months old -- which is 3-4 months away.

The rest of the poultry on my 4 acre property belong to my landlord. There is over an acre between them and Elvis with no chance of interaction.

If he has Marek's it won't matter how long you wait to introduce him to the rest of your chickens. I'm not saying that he does have Marek's but if he does you'll have to consider your property as having Marek's. It's a horrible disease and I didn't have any problems with it until I "rescued" some birds from the feedstore.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

You might want to check out these links:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq
https://www.backyardchickens.com/g/a/6168595/mareks-signs-and-symptoms/
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/m/mareks_disease/intro.htm
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-virus-the-most-frequently-asked-questions
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/741957/not-an-emergency-mareks-in-the-flock

-Kathy

 

[circesfire]

Just wanted to say I've read through this thread and really hope that Elvis pulls through! You must be a very loving family to put so much into nursing him back to health.

In case anyone following this thread has any interest in subcutaneous fluids. I thought I would provide my experience. Living in Arizona the rehabilitation organization I volunteered with faced a lot of dehydrated birds. In the summer we gave most of the birds that came in fluids. The way we did it was to use a small needle right under the skin (between the really thin loose outer skin and any of the deep tissue, is the best way I can describe it). We usually did it under the wings, but also occasionally by where the leg meets the body. I'd always put the needle in parallel to the birds body so you could see the needle under the skin. Then put your fingers from the hand you won't be using the plunger with

 

[circesfire]

In a pinching motion around the needle. Then inject the fluids which should form a large bubble under the skin. That way the bird can absorb it as needed. When you pull the needle out some of the fluids may leak out but will usually stop in a few seconds if you put your finger over it. Should say this all applies to raptors, but I plan on doing it with my chickens if they need it. Hopefully this makes sense and helps someone

 

[casportpony]

Just wanted to say I've read through this thread and really hope that Elvis pulls through! You must be a very loving family to put so much into nursing him back to health.

In case anyone following this thread has any interest in subcutaneous fluids. I thought I would provide my experience. Living in Arizona the rehabilitation organization I volunteered with faced a lot of dehydrated birds. In the summer we gave most of the birds that came in fluids. The way we did it was to use a small needle right under the skin (between the really thin loose outer skin and any of the deep tissue, is the best way I can describe it). We usually did it under the wings, but also occasionally by where the leg meets the body. I'd always put the needle in parallel to the birds body so you could see the needle under the skin. Then put your fingers from the hand you won't be using the plunger with

You should make a video on how to do it.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

In a pinching motion around the needle. Then inject the fluids which should form a large bubble under the skin. That way the bird can absorb it as needed. When you pull the needle out some of the fluids may leak out but will usually stop in a few seconds if you put your finger over it. Should say this all applies to raptors, but I plan on doing it with my chickens if they need it. Hopefully this makes sense and helps someone

Of course one should only do this with sterile, bagged fluids like lactated ringers solution or sodium chloride solution.

-Kathy

 

[Bogtown Chick]

What are the cc limits to the area? I'm sure under the wing can take less than the leg/body space.... Estimates are fine.

For example in humans IM shots in the upper arm muscle --not recommended to go above 1 cc. and IM shots to the glut not to go above 3 cc.

This could be apples and oranges with chickens and sub cutaneous....but if there's so point of reference on what amount is best per location that would help a new person doing this....

 

[circesfire]

Sorry my last post was so incomplete, I was really tired. I used saline for injections. We'd always warm it in a water bath before hand unless it was a dire need case then we just used it at room temperature.

I've never done it on chickens, but on a similarly sized raptor I would expect 10-20ccs on each side (skin would usually puff up to the size of between a golf ball and a cutie orange).

 

[casportpony]

What are the cc limits to the area? I'm sure under the wing can take less than the leg/body space.... Estimates are fine.

For example in humans IM shots in the upper arm muscle --not recommended to go above 1 cc. and IM shots to the glut not to go above 3 cc.

This could be apples and oranges with chickens and sub cutaneous....but if there's so point of reference on what amount is best per location that would help a new person doing this....

There is a perentage based on weight.
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/15.pdf
The vet told me I could give 35ml each on wing when I brought in a young turkey a couple of years ago, but I don't remember how much he weighed.

http://www.lafebervet.com/emergency-medicine/birds/how-to-guide-subcutaneous-fluids-in-birds/
Equipment needed:

• Syringe
• Needle of appropriate size: 22 to 25-ga needles for larger birds and 25 to 27-ga for small patients
• Warmed fluids
• +/- Butterfly catheters make fluid administration much easier when a larger syringe (35-60 ml) is used

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Potential complications:

• If the needle is inserted too deeply, fluids can be inserted directly into the abdominal air sac. From here they can quickly flow to the lungs.
• Although the inguinal region has a relatively large subcutaneous space, over-distention of the space with fluids can disrupt the blood flow thereby reducing the rate of fluid absorption.

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Step-by-step instructions:

• Provide warmed fluids by storing fluid bags in a fluid warming cabinet or placing the syringe in warm water.
• Fluids are most commonly given in the inguinal region. While an assistant holds the bird upright, extend and slightly abduct one of the legs.
  
• Part the feathers over the ventral or inner thigh where the leg meets the abdominal wall. Use alcohol only sparingly to keep the feathers out of the way as alcohol will cool the bird.
• Insert the needle, bevel up, at a shallow angle slightly away from the body wall. It is generally easy to avoid blood vessels since the needle is visible underneath the skin.
  
• As you begin to infuse fluid, the subcutaneous space will expand substantially to form a bubble. Stop and redirect the needle if you do not see a bubble form.
• Keep the needle in the middle of this bubble so that you do not inadvertently slip out of the subcutaneous space.
• As you begin to infuse fluid, the subcutaneous space will expand substantially to form a bubble. Stop and redirect the needle if you do not see a bubble form. Keep the needle in the middle of this bubble so that you do not inadvertently slip out of the subcutaneous space.
• If the subcutaneous space is overfilled, fluid will begin to leak out around the needle or the bird may begin to show signs of discomfort.
  
  Diagram provided by Dr. Scott Ford.
• If fluids do not flow freely, the needle is either in muscle or the tip of the needle is pressed against tissue. Try rotating the needle slightly or pulling back and readjusting your position.

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Original article by Scott Ford, updated with video and modified by Christal Pollock, DVM, Dipl. ABVP-Avian and reviewed by Drs. Scott Echols and Susan Orosz.