Show Me Chick,
I'm not kidding.
Scroll down and read my 2nd post.
It explains my thinking on the post you commented on.
spot
I'm not kidding.
Scroll down and read my 2nd post.
It explains my thinking on the post you commented on.
spot
Neighbors dogs got my birds, how much should he pay to replace them?
- Thread starter omnislash
- Start date
- Jun 10, 2010
- 257
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- 111
spotted tail wrote: Re: Neighbors dogs got my birds, how much should he pay to replace them?Quote... "It is HIS job to keep HIS dogs on HIS property".
Ahhh...but do you really want the security of your birds to depend on your neighbors ability to keep his dogs on his property? ..Really?.. You have 100% confidence he can do that 100% of the time??
I'm aware this "my neighbors better keep their dogs off my property" line of thinking is very common, but it invites trouble down the road. Don't think that way. Don't put the safety of your flock in his hands!
As owners and the ultimate protector of our birds, we must provide the last and best barriers against loss.
Our birds are not neighbor Joe's responsibility. He's got dogs. Dogs get loose!
Want to put your birds safekeeping with him, and hope for the best??? You do? Then count on losses, they're coming someday.
Defend against that friendly lovable mutt!!
Our birds are not Mother Natures responsibility. She's got dozens of predators with no kennels, leashes or property lines! Mom Nature is a great gal, but her kids are so mischievious!
We must defend against her too. And hard!
It's OUR responsibility in the end. If we lapse we will suffer losses eventually.
It really doesn't matter how it happens. We just need to own up to it and protect better.
We are like goalies.
When our mates slip-up, it's up to us to make the final save.
If we don't, we share responsibility in the loss.
Ooooh you are 100% percent wrong!!!! Dogs get loose, huh? I'm a ex dog breeder that had owned over 40 adult dogs (all at one time) and they did not roam and kill neighbors pets or livestock!!!! They never got out. Why you may ask, because I'm responsible and keep my dogs contained!!!!
Ahhh...but do you really want the security of your birds to depend on your neighbors ability to keep his dogs on his property? ..Really?.. You have 100% confidence he can do that 100% of the time??
I'm aware this "my neighbors better keep their dogs off my property" line of thinking is very common, but it invites trouble down the road. Don't think that way. Don't put the safety of your flock in his hands!
As owners and the ultimate protector of our birds, we must provide the last and best barriers against loss.
Our birds are not neighbor Joe's responsibility. He's got dogs. Dogs get loose!
Want to put your birds safekeeping with him, and hope for the best??? You do? Then count on losses, they're coming someday.
Defend against that friendly lovable mutt!!
Our birds are not Mother Natures responsibility. She's got dozens of predators with no kennels, leashes or property lines! Mom Nature is a great gal, but her kids are so mischievious!
We must defend against her too. And hard!
It's OUR responsibility in the end. If we lapse we will suffer losses eventually.
It really doesn't matter how it happens. We just need to own up to it and protect better.
We are like goalies.
When our mates slip-up, it's up to us to make the final save.
If we don't, we share responsibility in the loss.
Ooooh you are 100% percent wrong!!!! Dogs get loose, huh? I'm a ex dog breeder that had owned over 40 adult dogs (all at one time) and they did not roam and kill neighbors pets or livestock!!!! They never got out. Why you may ask, because I'm responsible and keep my dogs contained!!!!
I read somewhere that you take the cost of what you paid for your birds originally, add the cost of feed, medication (basic care, etc) then add:
SQ hen thats laying - 25%
SQ Roo, PQ hen thats laying - 20%
Anything else - 10-15% (depending on rarity of breed)
Also, on the note of the dogs, this is a BIG issue people deal with a lot with dogs destroying property. The chickens are considered your property, even if they weren't on your land. I think it's part of a livestock law. As long as the birds weren't on HIS property he is liable for your losses. I wouldn't argue over it too much and since he is offering to cover your losses I'd set him a fair price. If he was being a jerk about it and you would have to take the matter to court then I'd rip him a new @$$hole. I don't see any reason why it should go to that since he is offering to cover your damage, but if you set what you think is a fair price and he doesnt want to pay you can fight him in small claims court. Check your local leash law (or "wandering nuisance" law in some places). If you hit someones dog with your car the owner is suppose to pay damages (cruel I know) because the dog is violating the leash law and destroyed property in the process, so I don't see why this situation would be any different.
Sorry about your babies. I know no amount of money can replace their emotional value.
SQ hen thats laying - 25%
SQ Roo, PQ hen thats laying - 20%
Anything else - 10-15% (depending on rarity of breed)
Also, on the note of the dogs, this is a BIG issue people deal with a lot with dogs destroying property. The chickens are considered your property, even if they weren't on your land. I think it's part of a livestock law. As long as the birds weren't on HIS property he is liable for your losses. I wouldn't argue over it too much and since he is offering to cover your losses I'd set him a fair price. If he was being a jerk about it and you would have to take the matter to court then I'd rip him a new @$$hole. I don't see any reason why it should go to that since he is offering to cover your damage, but if you set what you think is a fair price and he doesnt want to pay you can fight him in small claims court. Check your local leash law (or "wandering nuisance" law in some places). If you hit someones dog with your car the owner is suppose to pay damages (cruel I know) because the dog is violating the leash law and destroyed property in the process, so I don't see why this situation would be any different.
Sorry about your babies. I know no amount of money can replace their emotional value.
DragonEggs,
You make two good points which I overlooked in my previous posts.
- The neighbor probably IS accountable for all the damage his dogs caused.
I'm looking at it from a viewpoint of our responsibility as protectors, plus keeping good neighborly relations.
- I also agree the neighbors attitude should play a part in the amount he pays.
This OP's neighbor seems to be a good one, so I'd probably offer 50/50 on legitimate damages.
Leave with smiles and a handshake.
But if the neighbor refuses or gets nasty, leave and go for 100% in small claims court (if the law says he's responsible for 100%).
Hope to hear the results of this episode. It should be interesting.
spot
You make two good points which I overlooked in my previous posts.
- The neighbor probably IS accountable for all the damage his dogs caused.
I'm looking at it from a viewpoint of our responsibility as protectors, plus keeping good neighborly relations.
- I also agree the neighbors attitude should play a part in the amount he pays.
This OP's neighbor seems to be a good one, so I'd probably offer 50/50 on legitimate damages.
Leave with smiles and a handshake.
But if the neighbor refuses or gets nasty, leave and go for 100% in small claims court (if the law says he's responsible for 100%).
Hope to hear the results of this episode. It should be interesting.
spot
Quote:
You are right that my birds are not my neighbor's responsibility - but keeping HIS dogs secured sure is his responsibility! And if they get loose, what happens is totally his responsibility!
If my dogs got loose and damaged someone else's property, I would never expect them to discount the cost of replacement just because the property was accessible to my dogs. Seriously, if they even suggested the idea, I'd say no way.
If they ate up someone's garden, would you tell that person it was their fault for planting vegetables that tempted the dog and not having fencing all around the garden?
If they bit a child, would you suggest it was the parent's fault for letting the child play outside???
You are right that my birds are not my neighbor's responsibility - but keeping HIS dogs secured sure is his responsibility! And if they get loose, what happens is totally his responsibility!
If my dogs got loose and damaged someone else's property, I would never expect them to discount the cost of replacement just because the property was accessible to my dogs. Seriously, if they even suggested the idea, I'd say no way.
If they ate up someone's garden, would you tell that person it was their fault for planting vegetables that tempted the dog and not having fencing all around the garden?
If they bit a child, would you suggest it was the parent's fault for letting the child play outside???
- Jun 10, 2010
- 257
- 3
- 111
spottedtail wrote: - I also agree the neighbors attitude should play a part in the amount he pays.
This OP's neighbor seems to be a good one, so I'd probably offer 50/50 on legitimate damages.
Leave with smiles and a handshake.
Wrong again!!! The neighbor should pay 100% of damages occured from his dogs reguardless of his attitdue. Who cares how the neighbor acts, doesn't matter nice or not he's is in the wrong since his dogs got out. Gee I can't understand your veiws they are screwed up!
This OP's neighbor seems to be a good one, so I'd probably offer 50/50 on legitimate damages.
Leave with smiles and a handshake.
Wrong again!!! The neighbor should pay 100% of damages occured from his dogs reguardless of his attitdue. Who cares how the neighbor acts, doesn't matter nice or not he's is in the wrong since his dogs got out. Gee I can't understand your veiws they are screwed up!
- Jun 10, 2010
- 257
- 3
- 111
I wanted to say if my dogs got out I would not be trying to sugar coat or act like it was a freak thing that they got out (even if it was)... I would pay up and then some!!!
I agree with spot... in court you couldn't prove those dogs killed your birds, just that they were on the property and were eating them. Can't say a coon, possum, hawk, human didn't kill them and the dogs hearing the fuss came over to investigate.
If you were concerned about your neighbor keeping their dogs in you'd have called animal control/the police. Since you haven't done that you are accepting that it's gonna happen, and that it's your job to lock in your flock against ALL predators climbers or canine. Least I can hear a lawyer making those two points. *rants about legal system*
That's somewhat the way I look at it, why I built my coop the way I did and why our property is fenced to boot. But, I'd also shoot a dog I saw hurting my pets, or call it in for the Pros to deal with. If I let my hens out At Large, able to get anywhere on my property or someone else's, then I can only blame myself if their being out gets them killed. You have a chicken yard, and while it may keep the hens in, it clearly doesn't keep predators out. So, while it protects your neighbors from your pets destroying their property it doesn't protect your pets from any animal threat. Keeps you from being sued for damages against others, but doesn't prevent damages against you.
Since the guy is offering, I'd ask for HALF the costs of POL (if you can find them) or as others have said chick +food per day x#days old.
If a neighbor's dog gave mine rabies I wouldn't sue because I neglected to get them vaccinated against it. I'd accept that both our dogs are lost and try and move on. In the end, a neighbor's pets are his responsibility but then, so are mine.
Because of that I'd take half the responsibility, just to keep my neighbor friendly. With the stipulation of course that if it happens again I'd make the call about the killer dogs and expect full reimbursement. EVERYONE makes mistakes, including me, so trying to pin all the responsibility for my pet's whereabouts on someone else doesn't sit well with me.
So, POL x # plus shipping divided by two would do for me. And, rather than restocking I'd prolly put that money to use for better security so what's left of my flock is safe, THEN rebuild the stock. *passes salt cellar*
If you were concerned about your neighbor keeping their dogs in you'd have called animal control/the police. Since you haven't done that you are accepting that it's gonna happen, and that it's your job to lock in your flock against ALL predators climbers or canine. Least I can hear a lawyer making those two points. *rants about legal system*
That's somewhat the way I look at it, why I built my coop the way I did and why our property is fenced to boot. But, I'd also shoot a dog I saw hurting my pets, or call it in for the Pros to deal with. If I let my hens out At Large, able to get anywhere on my property or someone else's, then I can only blame myself if their being out gets them killed. You have a chicken yard, and while it may keep the hens in, it clearly doesn't keep predators out. So, while it protects your neighbors from your pets destroying their property it doesn't protect your pets from any animal threat. Keeps you from being sued for damages against others, but doesn't prevent damages against you.
Since the guy is offering, I'd ask for HALF the costs of POL (if you can find them) or as others have said chick +food per day x#days old.
If a neighbor's dog gave mine rabies I wouldn't sue because I neglected to get them vaccinated against it. I'd accept that both our dogs are lost and try and move on. In the end, a neighbor's pets are his responsibility but then, so are mine.
Because of that I'd take half the responsibility, just to keep my neighbor friendly. With the stipulation of course that if it happens again I'd make the call about the killer dogs and expect full reimbursement. EVERYONE makes mistakes, including me, so trying to pin all the responsibility for my pet's whereabouts on someone else doesn't sit well with me.
So, POL x # plus shipping divided by two would do for me. And, rather than restocking I'd prolly put that money to use for better security so what's left of my flock is safe, THEN rebuild the stock. *passes salt cellar*
Last edited:
Quote:
Wrong again!!! The neighbor should pay 100% of damages occured from his dogs reguardless of his attitdue. Who cares how the neighbor acts, doesn't matter nice or not he's is in the wrong since his dogs got out. Gee I can't understand your veiws they are screwed up!
Wow, you don't need to get nasty.
Just because you don't understand someone elses point of view, doesn't make them screwed up.
Yes, dogs DO get out.
I believe the point spottedtail was trying to make was;
If you let your chickens roam your property without supervision, or predator protection, expect there to be losses.
Whether it's from dogs or bears or eagles or owls.
OP; I'm sorry for your loss.
I agree about finding the cost of POL pullets. I think Murray Mcmurray and Meyer both sell them.
Wrong again!!! The neighbor should pay 100% of damages occured from his dogs reguardless of his attitdue. Who cares how the neighbor acts, doesn't matter nice or not he's is in the wrong since his dogs got out. Gee I can't understand your veiws they are screwed up!
Wow, you don't need to get nasty.
Just because you don't understand someone elses point of view, doesn't make them screwed up.
Yes, dogs DO get out.
I believe the point spottedtail was trying to make was;
If you let your chickens roam your property without supervision, or predator protection, expect there to be losses.
Whether it's from dogs or bears or eagles or owls.
OP; I'm sorry for your loss.
Quote:
You are right that my birds are not my neighbor's responsibility - but keeping HIS dogs secured sure is his responsibility! And if they get loose, what happens is totally his responsibility!
If my dogs got loose and damaged someone else's property, I would never expect them to discount the cost of replacement just because the property was accessible to my dogs. Seriously, if they even suggested the idea, I'd say no way.
If they ate up someone's garden, would you tell that person it was their fault for planting vegetables that tempted the dog and not having fencing all around the garden?
If they bit a child, would you suggest it was the parent's fault for letting the child play outside???
Couldnt say it better.
You are right that my birds are not my neighbor's responsibility - but keeping HIS dogs secured sure is his responsibility! And if they get loose, what happens is totally his responsibility!
If my dogs got loose and damaged someone else's property, I would never expect them to discount the cost of replacement just because the property was accessible to my dogs. Seriously, if they even suggested the idea, I'd say no way.
If they ate up someone's garden, would you tell that person it was their fault for planting vegetables that tempted the dog and not having fencing all around the garden?
If they bit a child, would you suggest it was the parent's fault for letting the child play outside???
Couldnt say it better.
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