New Incubation Questions

[Sydney65]

I'm not so much sure I ASKED if it was ok or just said it's what I did last time : Post in thread 'Suggestions for Management of Damaged and Mal-positioned Egg Air Cells' https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-positioned-egg-air-cells.501034/post-7515764
So is just tilting the eggs side to side, or as I did last time, actually tilt the incubator with a block w/o opening the incubator at all - sufficient, or do the eggs require actual turning in a rotation?
Some are again with the loose cell, not nearly as jiggly as last time but somewhat.
I have them upright in a new,sanitized egg carton, I put holes in the bottom of each holder to aid air flow. So far I've been actually turning the eggs, but this is the guy I read last time that made me think tilting was better. But that was 4 yrs ago so there may be new info that says no it's not a good idea.
The reason it seems to make sense to me is that it seems less disruptive when trying to strengthen the chalaza.
Interesting things in that thread - w/detached aircells he said the bulk of egg, the yolk, will be lower in shell. I have evidence of that.
He indicates that due to the detached aircell....basically the weight loss will be more rapid so the humidity shld be higher.
Coincidently I'm battling environmental humidity right now, so it's @ 46% with the vent open only as much as required. There is distilled h20 in one port but not full, only bc it says not to operate incubator w/o. I did a weigh in last night, in 6 days, of 18 eggs, grams lost are:
0g: 4
1g: 9
2g: 4
3g: 1
I have 13 healthy embryos & 3 I'm not confident of, 1 I think might be a blood ring but not sure yet (dark egg) and one I can't see anything (dark freckled egg). The ones I have question of have either lost no weight or only 1 gram. Around +/- 1.5g a week seems to be the desired for 13% - should I stick to 13% or aim higher for jiggly eggs?

I do have one I have my doubts on. It's not round, seems to have floaters or strings. I've seen "scrambled" referred to before, but not the effect. I assume this is what is being referred to. Are they to be pitched, are they still functional to the keet, if there is one? In this case, at the moment, anyway, it is not one I see an embryo in. I anticipated those floaters will end up being bacteria.

So, new hatch, new questions. Oh, and one more - would you guys prefer I stop relying on you so much and go bug the folks in a hatch a long? Lol. I have before, but feel out of step with guineas.

 

[R2elk]

Managing humidity by closing vents is wrong. The vents should be open especially during lockdown when the eggs need the most oxygen. Manage the humidity by controlling the surface area of the water. Higher humidity needs larger surface area, lower humidity needs smaller surface area.

In an area where the ambient humidity is 60%, a person should be able to have an acceptable incubation humidity without adding any water. It is only during lockdown under those conditions tha the addition of water is required.

 

[R2elk]

I haven't seen any complaints about your questions. Keep them coming.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I'm not so much sure I ASKED if it was ok or just said it's what I did last time : Post in thread 'Suggestions for Management of Damaged and Mal-positioned Egg Air Cells' https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-positioned-egg-air-cells.501034/post-7515764
So is just tilting the eggs side to side, or as I did last time, actually tilt the incubator with a block w/o opening the incubator at all - sufficient, or do the eggs require actual turning in a rotation?
Some are again with the loose cell, not nearly as jiggly as last time but somewhat.
I have them upright in a new,sanitized egg carton, I put holes in the bottom of each holder to aid air flow. So far I've been actually turning the eggs, but this is the guy I read last time that made me think tilting was better. But that was 4 yrs ago so there may be new info that says no it's not a good idea.
The reason it seems to make sense to me is that it seems less disruptive when trying to strengthen the chalaza.
Interesting things in that thread - w/detached aircells he said the bulk of egg, the yolk, will be lower in shell. I have evidence of that.
He indicates that due to the detached aircell....basically the weight loss will be more rapid so the humidity shld be higher.
Coincidently I'm battling environmental humidity right now, so it's @ 46% with the vent open only as much as required. There is distilled h20 in one port but not full, only bc it says not to operate incubator w/o. I did a weigh in last night, in 6 days, of 18 eggs, grams lost are:
0g: 4
1g: 9
2g: 4
3g: 1
I have 13 healthy embryos & 3 I'm not confident of, 1 I think might be a blood ring but not sure yet (dark egg) and one I can't see anything (dark freckled egg). The ones I have question of have either lost no weight or only 1 gram. Around +/- 1.5g a week seems to be the desired for 13% - should I stick to 13% or aim higher for jiggly eggs?

I do have one I have my doubts on. It's not round, seems to have floaters or strings. I've seen "scrambled" referred to before, but not the effect. I assume this is what is being referred to. Are they to be pitched, are they still functional to the keet, if there is one? In this case, at the moment, anyway, it is not one I see an embryo in. I anticipated those floaters will end up being bacteria.

So, new hatch, new questions. Oh, and one more - would you guys prefer I stop relying on you so much and go bug the folks in a hatch a long? Lol. I have before, but feel out of step with guineas.

Well I know I’m invested in your hatch and want to hear how it’s going! I just don’t know that I’m very helpful in figuring out the best way to incubate shipped eggs. I received shipped black copper marans eggs at one point and read all I could on them. A lot of people advocate turning shipped eggs by tilting, especially if the air cell is detached. Some people don’t even turn for the first week. Other people thought turning was too critical so turn more normally. For my BCM eggs, I ended up using the a turner that slowly tilts back and forth. Most developed, but not one chick hatched. I had temperature issues too so I don’t know exactly which issues went wrong…

I’m going to tag @CluckNDoodle again and see if she has an opinion for humidity and turning your shipped eggs. It could be worthwhile to also post questions on the hatching forum and join a hatchalong, so you can talk with people who routinely hatch shipped eggs. It seems like hatching those guys is an art form!!

 

[R2elk]

Well I know I’m invested in your hatch and want to hear how it’s going! I just don’t know that I’m very helpful in figuring out the best way to incubate shipped eggs. I received shipped black copper marans eggs at one point and read all I could on them. A lot of people advocate turning shipped eggs by tilting, especially if the air cell is detached. Some people don’t even turn for the first week. Other people thought turning was too critical so turn more normally. For my BCM eggs, I ended up using the a turner that slowly tilts back and forth. Most developed, but not one chick hatched. I had temperature issues too so I don’t know exactly which issues went wrong…

I’m going to tag @CluckNDoodle again and see if she has an opinion for humidity and turning your shipped eggs. It could be worthwhile to also post questions on the hatching forum and join a hatchalong, so you can talk with people who routinely hatch shipped eggs. It seems like hatching those guys is an art form!!

Hatching shipped eggs can give widely varying results depending on the breed, the shipper and the carrier.

I have gotten results as low as 0% and as high as 78%. I routinely got a 60% hatch rate for viable eggs on guinea eggs received fro the Guinea Farm.

I have a cabinet incubator so any eggs are incubated large end up and turned every 3 hours by the auto turner by the tilting of the trays.

I am one of those that does not do anything special for shipped eggs. I treat them the same as I do my home produced eggs.

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Never stop asking questions!! I've hatched hundreds of chicks now and I still ask questions!

What brand of incubator are you using? Believe it or not, my approach to incubation varies based on what incubator I'm using. When I first started incubating I went off the deep end and accepted any and all incubators that were offered to me and I tried sooo many different brands, lol. I literally lined them up in the very same room, with the same ambient conditions, on the same countertop, and I found that each type has a sort of sweet spot or best approach.

Don't believe me? Check out a few of my rotations, lol!! I obviously have a favorite brand.

I have found that I get the best hatches at approximately 45% humidity for the beginning of incubation and increase to 65% for hatch in my NR360s I run my IncuView approximately 5% higher and my styrofoam incubators 5% lower (Hovabator, Little Giant, Farm Innovators). This can be adjusted up or down as needed based on weight loss. As @R2elk mentioned, I also leave all of the vents wide open throughout incubation because I feel ventilation is more important. I even leave the water port plug out because I see it as another vent, lol.

On the subject of turning shipped eggs, unless the air cell is completely detached, meaning free-floating around the egg like a bubble, I ALWAYS turn the eggs. I even turn the saddled air cell eggs and jiggly eggs. Turning is imperative for a healthy hatch. If I feel they need to rest longer, I rest them prior to putting them in the incubator but I think there is something to be said for the improved hatch rate of fresh eggs in most cases (I've done a lot of experimenting with my hatches and I even had a 100% hatch rate of refrigerated eggs that were a month old, so there are A LOT of different factors involved).
Here is a great article on the subject of turning: https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/the-biology-behind-egg-turning

I have used both vertical turners and horizontal turners, I personally prefer horizontal turners even for shipped eggs and I have had 100% hatch rates when I allowed the eggs to rest in the carton overnight and then placed them directly into the turner. With that said, this has a lot to do with what the eggs go through on the way to you. It's hit or miss with shipping. The way I look at it, if the egg is going to develop a healthy chick and isn't already scrambled, no amount of not turning the eggs will improve that outcome and it can be detrimental to the eggs that aren't scrambled.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit now, lol.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Never stop asking questions!! I've hatched hundreds of chicks now and I still ask questions!

What brand of incubator are you using? Believe it or not, my approach to incubation varies based on what incubator I'm using. When I first started incubating I went off the deep end and accepted any and all incubators that were offered to me and I tried sooo many different brands, lol. I literally lined them up in the very same room, with the same ambient conditions, on the same countertop, and I found that each type has a sort of sweet spot or best approach.

Don't believe me? Check out a few of my rotations, lol!! I obviously have a favorite brand.

View attachment 2865619

View attachment 2865618

View attachment 2865620

I have found that I get the best hatches at approximately 45% humidity for the beginning of incubation and increase to 65% for hatch in my NR360s I run my IncuView approximately 5% higher and my styrofoam incubators 5% lower (Hovabator, Little Giant, Farm Innovators). This can be adjusted up or down as needed based on weight loss. As @R2elk mentioned, I also leave all of the vents wide open throughout incubation because I feel ventilation is more important. I even leave the water port plug out because I see it as another vent, lol.

On the subject of turning shipped eggs, unless the air cell is completely detached, meaning free-floating around the egg like a bubble, I ALWAYS turn the eggs. I even turn the saddled air cell eggs and jiggly eggs. Turning is imperative for a healthy hatch. If I feel they need to rest longer, I rest them prior to putting them in the incubator but I think there is something to be said for the improved hatch rate of fresh eggs in most cases (I've done a lot of experimenting with my hatches and I even had a 100% hatch rate of refrigerated eggs that were a month old, so there are A LOT of different factors involved).
Here is a great article on the subject of turning: https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/the-biology-behind-egg-turning

I have used both vertical turners and horizontal turners, I personally prefer horizontal turners even for shipped eggs and I have had 100% hatch rates when I allowed the eggs to rest in the carton overnight and then placed them directly into the turner. With that said, this has a lot to do with what the eggs go through on the way to you. It's hit or miss with shipping. The way I look at it, if the egg is going to develop a healthy chick and isn't already scrambled, no amount of not turning the eggs will improve that outcome and it can be detrimental to the eggs that aren't scrambled.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit now, lol.

Very helpful information!!!

 

[Sydney65]

Never stop asking questions!! I've hatched hundreds of chicks now and I still ask questions!

What brand of incubator are you using? Believe it or not, my approach to incubation varies based on what incubator I'm using. When I first started incubating I went off the deep end and accepted any and all incubators that were offered to me and I tried sooo many different brands, lol. I literally lined them up in the very same room, with the same ambient conditions, on the same countertop, and I found that each type has a sort of sweet spot or best approach.

Don't believe me? Check out a few of my rotations, lol!! I obviously have a favorite brand.

View attachment 2865619

View attachment 2865618

View attachment 2865620

I have found that I get the best hatches at approximately 45% humidity for the beginning of incubation and increase to 65% for hatch in my NR360s I run my IncuView approximately 5% higher and my styrofoam incubators 5% lower (Hovabator, Little Giant, Farm Innovators). This can be adjusted up or down as needed based on weight loss. As @R2elk mentioned, I also leave all of the vents wide open throughout incubation because I feel ventilation is more important. I even leave the water port plug out because I see it as another vent, lol.

On the subject of turning shipped eggs, unless the air cell is completely detached, meaning free-floating around the egg like a bubble, I ALWAYS turn the eggs. I even turn the saddled air cell eggs and jiggly eggs. Turning is imperative for a healthy hatch. If I feel they need to rest longer, I rest them prior to putting them in the incubator but I think there is something to be said for the improved hatch rate of fresh eggs in most cases (I've done a lot of experimenting with my hatches and I even had a 100% hatch rate of refrigerated eggs that were a month old, so there are A LOT of different factors involved).
Here is a great article on the subject of turning: https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/the-biology-behind-egg-turning

I have used both vertical turners and horizontal turners, I personally prefer horizontal turners even for shipped eggs and I have had 100% hatch rates when I allowed the eggs to rest in the carton overnight and then placed them directly into the turner. With that said, this has a lot to do with what the eggs go through on the way to you. It's hit or miss with shipping. The way I look at it, if the egg is going to develop a healthy chick and isn't already scrambled, no amount of not turning the eggs will improve that outcome and it can be detrimental to the eggs that aren't scrambled.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit now, lol.

If you think YOU'RE rambling, you haven't read many of my posts. Lol.
I have the NR360,but this is only 2nd attempted hatch w/it,so not familiar w/quirks. It does have auto horizontal turner,I started these off that way, but it seemed awfully rough w/ my eggs, and was concerned w/air cells so changed back.
I'm not sure if you & Mixed are reading me as saying I don't want to turn at all, or if I'm failing to read you saying routine tilting at 45° opposed angles isn't good enough compared to turning? - I can turn them all day long, I just want to do it the safest way, & thought minimal contact and opening would be good. The auto just seems to ROLL them a lot.
It's hard to say what they went through getting here, it took 2 days from Fl. To Ind. I know, crazy, but if my babies hadn't been infected, I'd have 4-6 from last batch.
I opted to use #2 as my model because it swishes around pretty good, isn't fertile, is the one that led to the questions, "is that what they mean by scrambled?" and "are those floaty things on their way to becoming bacteria?"

Ok, vent wide open, put the distilled water back. Ambient Humidity here is down to 72% now, was 83% earlier.
Do you keep track of your weights?

 

[Sydney65]

If you think YOU'RE rambling, you haven't read many of my posts. Lol.
I have the NR360,but this is only 2nd attempted hatch w/it,so not familiar w/quirks. It does have auto horizontal turner,I started these off that way, but it seemed awfully rough w/ my eggs, and was concerned w/air cells so changed back.
I'm not sure if you & Mixed are reading me as saying I don't want to turn at all, or if I'm failing to read you saying routine tilting at 45° opposed angles isn't good enough compared to turning? - I can turn them all day long, I just want to do it the safest way, & thought minimal contact and opening would be good. The auto just seems to ROLL them a lot.
It's hard to say what they went through getting here, it took 2 days from Fl. To Ind. I know, crazy, but if my babies hadn't been infected, I'd have 4-6 from last batch.
I opted to use #2 as my model because it swishes around pretty good, isn't fertile, is the one that led to the questions, "is that what they mean by scrambled?" and "are those floaty things on their way to becoming bacteria?"

Ok, vent wide open, put the distilled water back. Ambient Humidity here is down to 72% now, was 83% earlier.
Do you keep track of your weights?

* I should say doesn't appear to be fertile; I haven't counted anyone out yet.

 

[R2elk]

* I should say doesn't appear to be fertile; I haven't counted anyone out yet.

Oftentimes with shipped eggs, ones that don't develop gett blamed on unfertilized when the cause may be something else. Scrambled eggs will not develop and it has nothing to do with whether or not the egg was fertilized.

Eggs that are shipped by air in a cargo hold that is not pressurized will be destroyed and will not develop. Again, it has nothing to do with whether or not the eggs were fertilized.

Good luck.