new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[RoyalChick]

I thought the issue with mealworms was the fatrotein ratio. I don't know if they have more fat than any other beetle grub or if all grubs are high in fat (which would make sense from the insects' point of view).
The water in live worms probably causes chickens to pace themselves because the crop extends with the volume. I didn't know you gave your chickens mealworms but I would think live are better than dried.
One other consideration which is consistent with the Cambridge Encyclopaedia you quote, is that I imagine mealworms naturally would be a seasonal food. At other times there would be the beetles to eat which will have a different fatrotein ratio.

I know next to nothing about mealworms but I do wonder if dried mealworm treats are the chicken equivalent of potato chips!

Sorry everyone - I had no idea that by using a perfectly common ratio descriptor I would cover my post with faces sticking out their tongues!
When you see fatrotein ratio, please read it as 'fat : protein' ratio.

 

[Perris]

I thought the issue with mealworms was the fatrotein ratio.

it's raised a lot on BYC but I find no evidential support for it outside of feed industry calibrated experiments with cecetomized birds, whose only sustenance is what they are offered to eat in sterile lab conditions. It is not an issue for wild birds.

I know next to nothing about mealworms

this is a good site to look at if you want to change that
https://mealwormcare.org/

Apologies for derailing the thread Perris.

no apologies necessary; who doesn't like Brownies? My flock will down any crumbs very readily

half of the chickens seem to like the mealworms.

so why are you depriving them just because the other half don't?

I have this huge bag of dry mealworms that I don't know how to use.

As NatJ said, let those who do like them eat them. I wouldn't be surprised if you find some of the decliners change their minds about them over time, when they see that the consumers have not only lived to tell the tale, but gone back for more! (assuming you give them the chance to have more, of course)

I'm also slightly reluctant now to start my own meal farm in case the chickens react to the live worms in the same manner.

you could try a sample from a fishing tackle or reptile supplies shop (both often have small tubs of live mealworms for sale) and see how they go first.

 

[RoyalChick]

it's raised a lot on BYC but I find no evidential support for it outside of feed industry calibrated experiments with cecetomized birds, whose only sustenance is what they are offered to eat in sterile lab conditions. It is not an issue for wild birds.

this is a good site to look at if you want to change that
https://mealwormcare.org/

no apologies necessary; who doesn't like Brownies? My flock will down any crumbs very readily

so why are you depriving them just because the other half don't?

As NatJ said, let those who do like them eat them. I wouldn't be surprised if you find some of the decliners change their minds about them over time, when they see that the consumers have not only lived to tell the tale, but gone back for more! (assuming you give them the chance to have more, of course)

you could try a sample from a fishing tackle or reptile supplies shop (both often have small tubs of live mealworms for sale) and see how they go first.

Thanks. I don't think I will start a mealworm farm - my largely uncared for property has a vast array of its own insects and grubs. When gardening I do collect stuff for the chickens if it is an area they cannot reach.
I have mixed feelings now that the Japanese beetle have all gone. They did nasty things to my roses but they did have lovely fat grubs for the chickens!

 

[Perris]

As far as birds self selecting balance - I’m new to poultry but I have had caged birds (hookbills and softbills) for a long time and they can be pretty bad for doing just the opposite especially depending on species, refusing all attempts to get them to try a more varied diet. I would wonder if at least individuals or different species of or breeds of poultry would have similar tendencies.

if they have become accustomed to a limited diet it can be hard to change them, just like us with our eating habits. But it is also the case that some species are very particular, and typically they are the ones that die out. Adaptability is key to survival.

 

[Molpet]

Only half of the chickens seem to like the mealworms. Some will have just one reluctantly. My rooster is actually terrified of them and runs away if I try to feed him one !

Oh my
Mine fight and shove each other for them.
I wonder if they are old and that's why they were giving them away.

 

[Sally PB]

I have mixed feelings now that the Japanese beetle have all gone. They did nasty things to my roses but they did have lovely fat grubs for the chickens!

I "harvest" the JBs for the chickens. Last August there weren't as many as in 2023. My mixed feelings about that are 1% sorry chickens and 99% happy for the plants the JBs ravage.

How did you get rid of them all??? I'd love to know the secret, because they killed my hazelnut trees many years ago. This is a personal vendetta on my part. I have a score to settle.

Call me Guido as I crack my knuckles and recall the chickens munching down the bugs and any grubs I found for them.

 

[ManueB]

Whoever said that brownies don't rise, never met the cookbook I use. The brownie recipe contains baking powder, rises just fine, and I've never heard a complaint about them.

Your cookbook is certainly more expert on brownies than any recipes I've seen in french .
I'm beginning to wonder if we tweaked the recipes when we imported brownies, as is sometimes the case with recipes from other countries !

As NatJ said, let those who do like them eat them. I wouldn't be surprised if you find some of the decliners change their minds about them over time, when they see that the consumers have not only lived to tell the tale, but gone back for more! (assuming you give them the chance to have more, of course)

Yes, I still give them some, but it just goes down very slowly with only five or six chickens liking them. It's been about a month now, so I'm not sure more chickens will give them a try.

I have to try to film Gaston. When I shake their usual tiny treat container, he comes running as I always serve him first to scatter to the hens, and he finds out it's mealworms inside...he makes a face of utter dismay and runs away honking in disgust !

Oh my
Mine fight and shove each other for them.
I wonder if they are old and that's why they were giving them away.

Good question, so I checked. They are best before may 2026- I suppose they aren't new but still good.
They do smell, not bad, but they have a distinctive smell- is that normal ?

This reminds me of an anecdote about chicken's taste and/ or ability to discern some chemicals. Recently I had to give a week of daily antibiotics that apparently tasted really awful to a hen that would not take the medicine easily. I ended up inserting it into a piece of banana with the skin still on, her favourite food. When she came running and took a peck, I also saw utter disgust on her face, and if she could have spit it out she would have. She did not eat the rest.
The anecdote is that my trick nearly ruined bananas forever for her. The couple next days I brought her some with no medicine in it, she turned away and refused them. I actually had to use peer pressure and show her that all the other chickens were still loving bananas to get her to try it again, and it took several tries.
I wonder if it's not only about detecting a substance or taste at the moment but also associating food with a pleasant, or unpleasant experience.

 

[NatJ]

Your cookbook is certainly more expert on brownies than any recipes I've seen in french .
I'm beginning to wonder if we tweaked the recipes when we imported brownies, as is sometimes the case with recipes from other countries !

I found a posting on the internet with the same brownie recipe I use:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Old_Recipes/comments/1cx16wj/easy_from_scratch_brownies

I melt the chocolate & butter in the microwave instead of on the stovetop, but otherwise I follow it as written.

That particular cookbook was a Disney-themed one meant for children. None of the recipes were very creative (things like pancakes or peanut butter sandwiches, with a blurb about which cartoon character supposedly likes to eat them), but that probably means it was a typical brownie recipe at the time the cookbook was published.

 

[RoyalChick]

I "harvest" the JBs for the chickens. Last August there weren't as many as in 2023. My mixed feelings about that are 1% sorry chickens and 99% happy for the plants the JBs ravage.

How did you get rid of them all??? I'd love to know the secret, because they killed my hazelnut trees many years ago. This is a personal vendetta on my part. I have a score to settle.

Call me Guido as I crack my knuckles and recall the chickens munching down the bugs and any grubs I found for them.

Three pronged strategy sustained over several years:
- Up at dawn all summer picking them off the roses and drowning them in a bucket.
- Apply milky spore to the ground around favorite plants in late summer and through mid Fall. It is a bacterium that directs the grubs and feeds off them.
- Any living grubs found while digging snip in half with scissors. Once I got chickens this strategy was replaced by feeding them to the chickens.
I think it took me 3-4 years and now I haven’t seen one in years. I did see a chicken pull up a grub that could have been a JB grub last year, but it was gone down the hatch before I could be sure.

 

[Molpet]

They do smell, not bad, but they have a distinctive smell- is that normal ?

Yes I think they have a smell. Since I had covid pretty much everything smells the same.

I wonder if it's not only about detecting a substance or taste at the moment but also associating food with a pleasant, or unpleasant experience.

Sense of smell is tied to memory in people
https://magazine.hms.harvard.edu/articles/connections-between-smell-memory-and-health