new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[3KillerBs]

I think I've now identified the following in our lawn and borders and growing as weeds in gaps in hard landscapes: perennial ryegrass (the backbone of any lawn, usually), other as yet unidentified lawn grasses, burnet, campions, celandines, chamomile, clovers, cocksfoot, cowslips, cranesbill, crocuses, daisies (the chickens love little lawn daisy flowers), dandelions, docks, fescues, hawkweed, hemp agrimony, knapweed, lucerne/ alfalfa, medicks, mullein, plantains, self-heal, timothy, trefoils, wild garlic, yarrow, and lots of ferns, mosses, liverworts and lichens. And fungi, all sorts.

Here in my impoverished ecology I am absolutely swooning over that wonderful exologic diversity.

20 minutes north of me across a geologic division there is diversity like that.

20 minutes south of me the paucity of species is even worse.

As for the moral aspect. Is it moral to abuse any species the way chickens have been abused over the last 100 years or so?

I have known several commercial chicken farmers over a couple decades of living in areas known for their chicken production, including one of my current pastors.

"Abuse" is a strong and inflammatory word and I can assure you that, with the sort of rare exception of a depraved individual you might find in any context, no farmer abuses the animals that are his livelihood -- if for no other reason than that abused animals don't produce and animals that don't produce don't make the farmer any money.

True, battery layers are not kept in the sort of lovely conditions that we backyarders aspire to, but if they aren't sufficiently well-kept to be healthy then they don't lay and thus the farmer goes broke. The farmers are neither evil nor stupid.

As for the Cornish X meatbirds, they're babies in gigantic brooders. We've all seen people here on these forums still keeping their 6-8 week chicks in tiny plastic tubs in significantly worse conditions than the careful environmental control in one of my region's giant broiler houses.

Nobody I can think of is trying to eliminate the world's most efficient source of complete protein, if chickens are in fact this,

There is no other farm animal that even comes close to the feed conversion ratio of a modern Cornish X broiler. That's an indisputable fact. There is some thought that fish farming might compete with that efficiency, but the fish require higher protein feed than the chickens do. Here's one summary: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2018/f...ently-using-alternate-feed-efficiency-measure

Those who are trying to force the demise of what they label "factory farms" are indeed trying to rob low income people of food. On forums more suited to debate and political argument I have often challenged them to, if they wish to rob me of my affordable food, instead *personally* pay my family's grocery bills and none have ever chosen to do so.

 

[Perris]

Here in my impoverished ecology

what is the soil and geology you're on? is there anything you can do to rectify it, even partially?

 

[3KillerBs]

what is the soil and geology you're on? is there anything you can do to rectify it, even partially?

I'm in the Carolina Sandhills atop a hundred or more feet of fine-grained, highly-acidic, well-worked quartz sand with occasional clay lenses, which in parts of my yard means inch-thick layers of white porcelain clay.

The sand drains excessively well and packs so hard that it has to be dug with a pick when dry. It's so hard that people quite routinely drive onto lawns without any fear of bogging down and getting stuck unless it's actually in a swamp -- a phenomenon I've never known anywhere else I've lived (I grew up with it understood that one would NEVER leave the road/gravel drive without risk of sinking to the axles).

I have to drive about 12 miles north across the geologic transition to find a rock that hasn't been brought in as part of someone's landscaping.

Because my climate is warm and humid organic material added to the soil burns out in a season or two.

My best option for general improvement is to add organic material and lime. I have to fertilize vegetable garden areas or buy better soil. I'm trying to overseed with better-quality grass and, if it's not so viciously expensive this year, white clover. I'm even encouraging dandelions by selectively harvesting their competitors, the false dandelion, to feed to the chickens.

Over time, the chicken compost and their scratching action to break up should help, but it will require constant effort on the garden/orchard areas.

 

[3KillerBs]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandh... Sandhills,, wiregrass, and associated plants.

 

[Perris]

white porcelain clay

is opening a pottery an option? more seriously, if that clay were mechanically mixed with the sand and organic matter, wouldn't it help with moisture retention?

Because my climate is warm and humid organic material added to the soil burns out in a season or two

can you explain what 'burns out' means? I'm not familiar with the phrase.

 

[Geena]

I'm trying to overseed with better-quality grass and, if it's not so viciously expensive this year, white clover.

Unfortunately both grass and clover seed are unbelievably expensive right now.

 

[saysfaa]

Nobody I can think of is trying to eliminate the world's most efficient source of complete protein...

I could give you several names, along with chapter and verse of their own writings - in context even (unfortunately hard to find from any direction.) Assuming my library still has their books and/or I kept and can find the quotes I took. Or "most efficient sources," maybe, rather than "source."

 

[saysfaa]

is opening a pottery an option? more seriously, if that clay were mechanically mixed with the sand and organic matter, wouldn't it help with moisture retention?

Adding sand to even more normal clay makes it worse. We made that mistake in the last state we lived in, being new to clay.

It is how adobe is made.

Adding organic matter helps; it just takes a LOT of organic matter. And you still don't have a good soil structure underlying the efforts.

The deep-rooted plants like dandelions will help with the underlying soil structure - over time. Lots of time.

 

[Perris]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhills_(Carolina)#:~:text=Much of the Carolina Sandhills,, wiregrass, and associated plants.

that's interesting, and I note on one of the sites it links to at the end that "Plant species diversity increases for about seven years after a fire in a sandhills forest." https://web.archive.org/web/20001210122300/http://www.uga.edu/srel/sandhills.htm
so maybe some bonfires will help.

 

[3KillerBs]

is opening a pottery an option? more seriously, if that clay were mechanically mixed with the sand and organic matter, wouldn't it help with moisture retention?

Actually, 10-15 miles in another direction is a region known for its pottery. My clay, though very good quality, is not abundant enough to work with.

We haven't tried tilling this land, but on our previous property in this county we rented a rear-tine tiller and could barely force it into the ground. It takes farm-quality plowing to mix and we haven't the space to get a farm tractor in here and make the turns.

Just mixing the sand and clay doesn't help because, as @saysfaa said it then dries even harder -- becoming near waterproof -- though tilling in large quantities of manure and straw would.

can you explain what 'burns out' means? I'm not familiar with the phrase.

"Burning Out" is a term gardeners in this hot, humid climate use casually to refer to the way organic material vanishes as if consumed by fire as it composts down to nothing with remarkable speed. The combination of 90F+ summer days, humid conditions, and a summer season that lasts from April through October creates incredibly good conditions for bacterial action and the composting insects are likewise abundant and active.

One of the ecological oddities here is that we have very few worms to help keep soil from compacting. They're not native here and introduced species don't thrive under these conditions.

Where I grew up near Pittsburgh, PA (the foothills of the Applachians), we would use paper mulch in the garden and it would last all season but here I can put paper mulch down and it's gone by the end of July.

that's interesting, and I note on one of the sites it links to at the end that "Plant species diversity increases for about seven years after a fire in a sandhills forest." https://web.archive.org/web/20001210122300/http://www.uga.edu/srel/sandhills.htm
so maybe some bonfires will help.

The area were we burned brush after clearing is where the clover grows the thickest.

I can't burn over the ground in most of the lawn, but we built a firepit last summer and I plan to spread the ash as we have it available.