New Yorker gets in trouble for defending family

[Q9]

Quote:
I hate the term "scene." It is purposely vague. What's to stop a single room from being the "scene?" I consider the piece of property he owns to be the "scene."

Also, he YELLED to his wife. And tell me, PLEASE, where in Heaven's name did you see ANYTHING indicating that he had to run UP the stairs to get the gun? For all you know, he had it strategically positioned for a quick grab.

 

[nonseq]

Q9 - Guns were banned in Dodge City. That's why there weren't any shootings.

 

[User66184]

We arent allowed to shoot anyway here unless there 50ft away from you,

 

[welsummerchicks]

This discussion, for me, is absolutely terrifying. It really terrifies me how little people understand of what the law is. Because I am afraid a lot of people would make very poorly informed decisions if they were in a bad situation.

The jury doesn't 'consider' anything other than the instructions from the judge. They don't decide what the 'scene' is.

Fact is, he could have kept going away and diffused the scene, and he didn't. He lit the candle. He took a situation from 'call the cops and hide til they get here' to 'guess what? I'm going to jail!'

In this case, it appears the guy wasn't really 'defending' his family at all.

All NRA propoganda to the contrary, any time you pick up a gun and use it, you are risking the VERY serious possibility that your use of your weapon will not be considered lawful. There are many different circumstances and every black letter law in every state is slightly different, as are the various levels of case law.

Black letter law meaning just the law as it is written, and case law meaning that the way relevant cases were handled prior to this one, have a great influence on how this one goes, and where each case that is relevant was tried is also an influence(whether a higher or lower court, etc).

Additionally, most people aren't trained or able, to make the kinds of shots they talk about making. They are as likely to kill a passerby or a loved one as the person threatening them.

One thing I learned at an early age, running as fast as you can, is a real useful skill. If trouble is brewing, what I like to do is run away. Real fast. Run run run.

 

[nonseq]

Continuing my thought.....There is less crime when people feel connected to one another. That's why Jefferson and other writers that describe utopias base those on small towns. We are so disconnected from one another, so fearful of speaking to one another. That's what needs to be remedied.

 

[Cindiloohoo]

Either way...if that WAS MS13..he better be moving far and fast because he just highly ticked them off and they don't play around. They will get him. That was kinda dumb if you ask me. I'd have let them come into the house before shots were fired, and I would not have missed. Escalating the situation or not...that was just not very bright. He should have kept his butt inside once inside the house.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't think that's the root of the problem at all, but I don't even dare air my proposal here.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Comparing "gun ban Chicago" to 1885 Abilene using your numbers....

45 murders in 5 towns is equal to 9 murders per town....
9 murders in fifteen years equals one every other year, approximately
1885 population of Abilene is about 3000 people.

So Abilene's annual murder rate (1870-1885) is approximately 1 per 6000 people.
Chicago had 300 murders last year, in a city of 3 million. The annual murder rate was 1 per 10,000.

So comparing apples to apples, with per capita murder rates, Chicago's murder rate is not quite half that of frontier Abilene.

And if your numbers for Dodge City are correct...that's scary bad. Dodge's 1870 population was under 500, and by 1880 it had about double....so 5 murders for a population of 500 gives you a ginorgimous number of 1 per 100.....For Chicago to be that bad it would have to have 30,000 murders per year!

Not that this has anything to do with this particular thread.

 

[Q9]

mom'sfolly :

Comparing "gun ban Chicago" to 1885 Abilene using your numbers....

45 murders in 5 towns is equal to 9 murders per town....
9 murders in fifteen years equals one every other year, approximately
1885 population of Abilene is about 3000 people.

So Abilene's annual murder rate (1870-1885) is approximately 1 per 6000 people.
Chicago had 300 murders last year, in a city of 3 million. The annual murder rate was 1 per 10,000.

So comparing apples to apples, with per capita murder rates, Chicago's murder rate is not quite half that of frontier Abilene.

And if your numbers for Dodge City are correct...that's scary bad. Dodge's 1870 population was under 500, and by 1880 it had about double....so 5 murders for a population of 500 gives you a ginorgimous number of 1 per 100.....For Chicago to be that bad it would have to have 30,000 murders per year!

Not that this has anything to do with this particular thread.

Forgot to mention - homicide numbers include the infamous duels over honor, which made up a HUGE proportion of the killings. Considering that that is between two consenting adults, I'm not sure if it counts as murder or not. If not, murder becomes practically unheard of. You're right, though. Stupid comparison to Chicago - I enjoy throwing random tidbits in that don't have any bearing on the subject (And I'll admit, half the time the random jabs I throw in have NO research behind them whatsoever.

). However, my case overall still stands. The "Wild West" was a vastly safer place than it is typically portrayed. Also, the robbery and burglary rate was vastly lower than most modern American cities. Interesting fact about Abilene - there were NO killings until officers of the law appeared, supposedly to stop the killings. Which weren't happening.

Do with that what you will.

Overall, you're far less likely to be killed in cold blood in the Old West than in modern Chicago. Plus, even if you did get attacked, you'd probably get saved by the Outlaw Josey Wales.

Great movie, by the way. (Okay, now I KNOW I'm tired! I'm remaining cheerful and am rambling when I would typically be getting angry! Maybe I need to post when I'm tired more...)​

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Very, VERY true. At the risk of offending, big cities have always made me feel like a cog in a machine. It's rare that I've even been to them - I've been to NYC once and Atlanta several times - but I always feel like I'm in a hive or something. It's rather dehumanizing.