New Yorker gets in trouble for defending family

[Cetawin]

Quote:
well the allure is that it is an excellent rifle. It is a great hunting rifle, especially in the bush and inclement weather. You can drop that thing in mud, pick it up and fire it...it does not jam like most of the crap on the market will. It does not tenderize the deer unless you are a moron and shoot the deer several times. It does what a hunting rifle should do...one clean kill shot.

As for shooting people being the reason to have it...nope there are much better weapons for that.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
well the allure is that it is an excellent rifle. It is a great hunting rifle, especially in the bush and inclement weather. You can drop that thing in mud, pick it up and fire it...it does not jam like most of the crap on the market will. It does not tenderize the deer unless you are a moron and shoot the deer several times. It does what a hunting rifle should do...one clean kill shot.

As for shooting people being the reason to have it...nope there are much better weapons for that and many many less expensive weapons for that.

It's actually a very effective gun for home defense. Compact, 7.62 X 39 mm rounds, 30 round mag. More powerful than the M-16 or AR-15 and more compact than the average hunting rifle. Higher ammo capacity than a shotgun and greater accuracy than a handgun. Doesn't quite pack the punch of most hunting rifles or shotguns, or even a really big handgun, but still has a lot of defense advantages.

I know, I'm a nerd.

 

[AngieChick]

Quote:
You need to do a little more research into that era.

Believe it or not, violent crime was EXTEREMELY uncommon in the West, murder was strikingly rare, and rape was almost unheard of. In the actual Dodge city, there were only 5 killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in its history. Fewer than a dozen bank robberies occurred in the ENTIRE "Wild" West from 1859-1900. That means there are more bank robberies in one year in Dayton, Ohio than there were in several decades on the Frontier. There were only 45 homicides in the 5 major cattle towns - Abilene, Caldwell, Dodge City, Ellsworth, and Wichita - COMBINED, between 1870 and 1885. Compare this to gun-ban Chicago.

As historian Watson Parker writes, "When everybody has a gun on his hip, they tend to avoid confrontation."

Mom's folly covered the statistics here really well. As to rape being unheard of, one needs to remember that in the late 1800's the victim of the rape was often held up as the responsible party by "tempting" the man. Rape wasn't unheard of, reporting it was. Also, police forces weren't what they are now, so reporting anything wasn't as common.

I live in the west, it was indeed wild at times. Lots of good things happened, and lots of bad things happened. But, to compare the crime rates of those times to modern times is pointless. It's far more relevant to compare the crime statistics of a nation with strict gun laws to one with looser laws. There will still be other variables to take into consideration, but it will give you a much more accurate idea.

Back to the news story - the guy should have stayed inside. It was not a real bright idea to go right back in the line of fire. I think he's watched one too many action flicks and is confusing fiction with reality. In reality, the good guy doesn't always win and sometimes they accidentally shoot the little kid or pregnant woman down the street.​

 

[mom'sfolly]

The thing is, when you throw out random things without checking them, you lose credibility. Again, what constitutes a duel over honor? Two drunken louts accusing each other of cheating at cards, then pulling weapons? If you throw out stuff as fact, you better expect it to hold up, and not simply brush it off with a well the facts were wrong but my overall thesis still holds.....

 

[Cetawin]

Quote:
well the allure is that it is an excellent rifle. It is a great hunting rifle, especially in the bush and inclement weather. You can drop that thing in mud, pick it up and fire it...it does not jam like most of the crap on the market will. It does not tenderize the deer unless you are a moron and shoot the deer several times. It does what a hunting rifle should do...one clean kill shot.

As for shooting people being the reason to have it...nope there are much better weapons for that and many many less expensive weapons for that.

It's actually a very effective gun for home defense. Compact, 7.62 X 39 mm rounds, 30 round mag. More powerful than the M-16 or AR-15 and more compact than the average hunting rifle. Higher ammo capacity than a shotgun and greater accuracy than a handgun. Doesn't quite pack the punch of most hunting rifles or shotguns, or even a really big handgun, but still has a lot of defense advantages.

I know, I'm a nerd.

True but most homes are not large enough to have a clear firing field for a rifle like the AK...that is a lot of gun to go busting around corners, doors and etc. I would prefer my M1 Carbine for the close distance but the 30 cal round it fires would go throught the intruder and keep going. So a good handgun is my preference indoors.

If you are interested in the M1 or not familiar with it....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine

Does a great job on coyotes, fox, coons and other chicken killers BUT will go through them so I have to be mindful of what is on the other side of them

 

[Boyd]

Quote:
well the allure is that it is an excellent rifle. It is a great hunting rifle, especially in the bush and inclement weather. You can drop that thing in mud, pick it up and fire it...it does not jam like most of the crap on the market will. It does not tenderize the deer unless you are a moron and shoot the deer several times. It does what a hunting rifle should do...one clean kill shot.

As for shooting people being the reason to have it...nope there are much better weapons for that and many many less expensive weapons for that.

It's actually a very effective gun for home defense. Compact, 7.62 X 39 mm rounds, 30 round mag. More powerful than the M-16 or AR-15 and more compact than the average hunting rifle. Higher ammo capacity than a shotgun and greater accuracy than a handgun. Doesn't quite pack the punch of most hunting rifles or shotguns, or even a really big handgun, but still has a lot of defense advantages.

I know, I'm a nerd.

But an AK doesn't have to have a higher capacity.. all depends on how you load it. I have 5rd, 10rd, 30rd, 40rd and 150rd clips. the 150 is a drum actually. I wouldn't hesitate to take my AK hunting.. and I usually shoot a .30/06 .. My AK is compact and packs about as much punch as a light 30/30... which has killed numerous deer in this country. As to why folks should have one?

-A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.

-A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.

-A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

-All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

and of course my favorite...

-Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.

Although I do love the M-1 ... I could tell you why an AK is the best all around rifle in the world IMO (ak-47 or ak74) but honestly that's a discussion for another message board...​

 

[Q9]

Quote:
It's actually a very effective gun for home defense. Compact, 7.62 X 39 mm rounds, 30 round mag. More powerful than the M-16 or AR-15 and more compact than the average hunting rifle. Higher ammo capacity than a shotgun and greater accuracy than a handgun. Doesn't quite pack the punch of most hunting rifles or shotguns, or even a really big handgun, but still has a lot of defense advantages.

I know, I'm a nerd.

But an AK doesn't have to have a higher capacity.. all depends on how you load it. I have 5rd, 10rd, 30rd, 40rd and 150rd clips. the 150 is a drum actually. I wouldn't hesitate to take my AK hunting.. and I usually shoot a .30/06 .. My AK is compact and packs about as much punch as a light 30/30... which has killed numerous deer in this country. As to why folks should have one?

-A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.

-A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.

-A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

-All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

and of course my favorite...

-Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.

Although I do love the M-1 ... I could tell you why an AK is the best all around rifle in the world IMO (ak-47 or ak74) but honestly that's a discussion for another message board...​

Yeah, I've seen the drums. Here's an awesome video of the AK's (literal) firepower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

Something tells me you need a major permit for a full-auto gun like that!​

 

[Q9]

mom'sfolly :

The thing is, when you throw out random things without checking them, you lose credibility. Again, what constitutes a duel over honor? Two drunken louts accusing each other of cheating at cards, then pulling weapons? If you throw out stuff as fact, you better expect it to hold up, and not simply brush it off with a well the facts were wrong but my overall thesis still holds.....

I know, it's a problem I have. However, the stats I mentioned DID have research behind them. Quite a bit, actually. Just not the comparison to Chicago.

That's what I meant by "random jabs."

Yes, the drunken louts pulling guns counts. That was back when even drunks had a strong enough sense of honor that they would go into the street for a "formal" duel. It was strikingly rare that anyone would be murdered per se. There's actually a whole interesting backround as to why that was, mostly due to the heritage of Westerners and Southerners from areas where a threat to one's honor was usually also a threat to one's life or property.​

 

[Q9]

I just realized... I have hijacked my own thread.

I swear I think it's a disease.

 

[mom'sfolly]

What's the difference between drunken louts drawing guns and coked up gang bangers drawing guns for "dissing" someone else? Historical perspective?

Do gangland murders not count because they are "two consenting adults". If the man in NY had pulled a gun on a similarily armed man and they had shot each other, does that get excluded from murder statistics?