Next Steps for Potential URI

[brahmorp]

Hey folks, want some opinions here. On Monday I took my pullet to the vet for what appeared to be a URI (clear stringy nasal discharge, copious amounts of sneezing, symptoms for 3-4 weeks at this point). The doctor prescribed SMZs which I have been giving for almost 72 hours now, with pretty much no change. She has been living in my house in a dog crate. I noticed today that she appears to have some dried blood on her right nostril, this is the first time. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just from the dry indoor air like people get, but I’m concerned it could be something else.

Furthermore, he said I may have to eventually put the rest of the flock on antibiotics, but he didn’t specify how I’d know when it was time. I called the clinic today and the receptionist took my question, but I haven’t heard back yet. A few of the other 7 are sneezing and at least one has developed the same clear nasal discharge.

I have powdered Tylosin at home, but the vet didn’t seem keen on my using it, I believe due to regulations and such. I applied VetRx daily for about a week before I got her in for the appointment, it didn't seem to help. All the birds, including the one inside, remain active and eating and drinking with normal feces. The indoor chicken is a bit thin, but I don’t know if this is because of the illness specifically.

Is it time to take further action with the flock? How long does it usually take antibiotics to work? Should I be concerned about the blood? People on a Facebook group recommended oregano oil since it may help something viral if antibiotics aren’t working...any experience with this? Grateful for any info and advice, these are my much-loved pets, not food animals.

 

[dawg53]

It would be best to get all your birds started on the Tylosin including the pullet you took to the vet, and stop the SMZ.
Your birds have a respiratory disease and it sounds like it might possibly be Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG), since the vet mentioned your other birds would need to be put on antibiotics.
As far as the dried blood on her nostril, she probably injured it somehow while caged. It would be best to leave it alone and let it heal on its own.

Birds that have MG are carriers for life if they survive. They can spread the disease to newly introduced birds into a flock. You must maintain a closed flock; no new birds in, no birds out to be sold or given away. MG can be passed through eggs; no selling nor giving away eggs to be hatched.

Antibiotics such as Tylosin will treat symptoms but not cure the disease. Eventually the disease will become resistant to the Tylosin and ineffective in treating the symptoms. Then a more powerful antibiotic will be needed to treat your birds, and so on.

Your other option is to cull your flock, disinfect everything and repopulate later on.
MG only lasts in the environment for 3 days. After sanitizing, you can repopulate in one week.
To confirm that it's MG, I recommend contacting your vet and have him take a blood sample from your sickest bird and identify if in fact it's MG or send the sample off to a lab to be analyzed.
Here's a link regarding respiratory diseases in poultry. Scroll down to Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG) and read about it:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Here's another link regarding Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG).
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps034

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Egg withdrawal for Tylosin is 1 day after the last dose.

 

[brahmorp]

Dose on the package is correct for chickens too.

Did your vet "name" the illness your chickens have? Mycoplasma, Infectious Coryza, Infectious Bronchitis, etc.?

Cool, thanks. What is the typical egg withdrawal period? I only have one laying right now, but I’m finding several different answers online.

He did not. Didn’t do any diagnostics, so I spose he can’t be certain. He did said her lungs were clear, it was mostly in the sinuses.

 

[Myrshine]

I wouldn’t treat with antibiotics until you have a firm diagnosis on which respiratory disease it is. I also suggest that you should use and try natural remedies first before antibiotics as you’d just be creating antibiotic resistant strains of this bacteria (if this disease is bacterial). You should not ever breed from your sickly infected flock of you have birds for breeding purposes to sell to others, as some of these respiratory diseases can pass thru the egg, to the offspring, making baby chicks hatched with the disease. Keep a closed flock. Keep in mind that most, if not, all respiratory diseases of poultry is to be reported by law to the USDA. You can see the list of reportable diseases here: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/monitoring_surveillance/nlrad-system-standards.pdf

Here are a few places where you can get your birds tested. Necropsy testing is the best choice and most accurate for a firm diagnosis. There is live sampling also:https://www.zoologix.com/avian/index.htm & http://www.vetdna.com

 

[brahmorp]

Can the vet give you a script for the Doxy that you can get filled at the pharmacy?

Your vet has a reason for you to finish with the SMZ/TMP so hopefully they were able to clarify that. Sulfa drugs are often used to treat Infectious Coryza and another antibiotic like Tylosin or a "cycline" can be added to the treatment plan. He should also have been able to check his/her drug manual for any contraindications between the drugs. That's their job and what we are paying for!

Having said that, I am not a vet, I'm just a backyard keeper. Looking at an older copy of a vet drug manual I have - I do not see any contraindications between the SMZ/TMP, Doxycycline or Tylosin. Hope that helps.

Ah, perhaps I should have clarified that this was not the vet who saw the bird, it was the vet who was in office at the time. After waiting 30 hours for a call back, I checked in again and the receptionist decided to just ask the vet that was around. The Dr that saw her was out of office for some reason or another and she still hadn't gotten in touch with him. The vet in office said I could order the doxy from Global Pigeon Supply or something like that; they're out of stock and Jedd's takes around 10 days to deliver to my place. I would definitely call and ask about getting a prescription sent except at this point its the weekend and they're not open, and I just cant afford an emergency call for this situation, at any vet. Perhaps a second opinion next week?

In any event, I do appreciate your help very much!

 

[Eggcessive]

Tylosin or doxycycline can be used together. Some pigeon sites recommend that, but tylosin or doxycycline can be used separately to treat MG in poultry. SMZ TMP and other sulfas are used more to treat coryza. Coryza symptoms are usually worse than MG and it is said to smell very bad. Did your sick birds have a bead odor from their beaks? If not, MG might be the cause, especially due to the bubbles in eyes.

It is kind of funny that the vet jumped to giving SMZ-TMP or sulfa antibiotics, and said not to give Tylosin, since tylosin is actually approved for chickens, while sulfa antibiotics are not. They are frequently given by vets though, and also treat coccidiosis and fowl cholera.

 

[Eggcessive]

Viruses sometimes are a cause of respiratory disease, and those do not respond to antibiotics. The Zoologix testing tests for 8 different diseases including MG, coryza, and several viruses including infectious bornchitis, the most common disease. Sometimes you can get a false negative result, especially if antibiotics are used or symptoms have decreased. If you should ever lose a chicken, your state vet can perform a necropsy and testing on a body that has been kept cold, but not frozen, and sent to them soon after death. Here is a link for most state vets:
https://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm

 

[brahmorp]

It would be best to get all your birds started on the Tylosin including the pullet you took to the vet, and stop the SMZ.
Your birds have a respiratory disease and it sounds like it might possibly be Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG), since the vet mentioned your other birds would need to be put on antibiotics.
As far as the dried blood on her nostril, she probably injured it somehow while caged. It would be best to leave it alone and let it heal on its own.

Birds that have MG are carriers for life if they survive. They can spread the disease to newly introduced birds into a flock. You must maintain a closed flock; no new birds in, no birds out to be sold or given away. MG can be passed through eggs; no selling nor giving away eggs to be hatched.

Antibiotics such as Tylosin will treat symptoms but not cure the disease. Eventually the disease will become resistant to the Tylosin and ineffective in treating the symptoms. Then a more powerful antibiotic will be needed to treat your birds, and so on.

Your other option is to cull your flock, disinfect everything and repopulate later on.
MG only lasts in the environment for 3 days. After sanitizing, you can repopulate in one week.
To confirm that it's MG, I recommend contacting your vet and have him take a blood sample from your sickest bird and identify if in fact it's MG or send the sample off to a lab to be analyzed.
Here's a link regarding respiratory diseases in poultry. Scroll down to Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG) and read about it:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Here's another link regarding Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG).
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps034

Thanks so much for the reply. So, you don't believe that stopping the current antibiotic mid-course would cause any issues/further resistance? Also, what is the correct dosing info for chickens when it comes to Tylosin? I’ve attached a picture below, not sure if the instructions are exclusively for pigeons. I realize that culling is an option for many owners, but it isn’t for me.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks so much for the reply. So, you don't believe that stopping the current antibiotic mid-course would cause any issues/further resistance? Also, what is the correct dosing info for chickens when it comes to Tylosin? I’ve attached a picture below, not sure if the instructions are exclusively for pigeons. I realize that culling is an option for many owners, but it isn’t for me.
View attachment 2480822

Dose on the package is correct for chickens too.

Did your vet "name" the illness your chickens have? Mycoplasma, Infectious Coryza, Infectious Bronchitis, etc.?