Niacin Overdose

[BigBlueHen53]

Yes, it appears that giving too much niacin can have the opposite effect.

"Clinical signs for niacin toxicosis in chicks include reduced egg production, growth retardation, short legs and coarse, dense feathering. High dietary levels of niacin (0.75% to 2.0%) fed to broilers were detrimental to dimensions and mechanical properties of bone (Johnson et al., 1992; 1995; Leeson and Summers, 2001). There was no change in the mineral content of the tibia, but bone strength decreased with increased susceptibility to fracture.”"

Interesting isn't it?

Yes, thanks.

 

[Sarahf95]

Yes, I got the label. Do you have the brand name?

Oh sorry it’s bulk powders https://www.bulk.com/uk/b-vitamin-complex-tablets.html

 

[Isaac 0]

Oh sorry it’s bulk powders https://www.bulk.com/uk/b-vitamin-complex-tablets.html

Let me see if I can find a better one for you. It's pretty low in thiamine which is the vitamin were trying to rule out here. We want about 5mg thiamine per tablet, this one only has 1.1mg.

 

[HalfWayUpAMountain]

@Isaac 0

Is it also important to consider how much they are drinking and eating at the same time that you are dosing Issac ?

For example, with our very poorly ducklings, they were barely drinking or eating (supplemented with BY) at all - the dose in the water was quite high but their intake of anything was very low indeed. I also made sure they at least had a nibble of something at the same time as having their bill dipped. We tried dropper feeding before and I suspect that contributed to one of our poorly ducklings dying.

My reasoning was I know if I take supplements on an empty stomach, I can end up feeling queasy.

Once they started more normal ducky behvaiours with their food and water (standing in it, throwing it everywhere) I tapered down the dose because I read that as a sign they were recovering and eating and drinking more.

Thank you for the info - I think its super important to understand as much as possible on the dosing and quality of supplements.

 

[HalfWayUpAMountain]

We don't know exactly - we do know the new breeding pair (Cayuga) had a very high fail rate with successfully hatching and then surviving beyond the hatch (either that or Mr Buff our Don Juan of the boys has awesome super genetics which meant every hatchling survived last year).

We won't be breeding from either of them moving forward or their offspring.

Where the eggs were from the breeding pair, I think we had one out of seven survive, with two dying post hatch. Where they were crossed with a KC or a Buffling, we had a better but still not great rate of something like one in two.

All I can say is that for the survivors, connected or otherwise, their symptoms were: poor overall development (they seemed premature even at 28 days+) lack of strentgh, poor co-ordination, bad positioning in the egg, trembling, poor appetite, splayed legs and one case of wry neck. Some were still absorbing as they came out the shell so had that additional challenge.

I've shared Wonkys story on the board - (s)he probably had most issues whilst managing to survive.

I supported Wonky with bill dunking (food and duck lucozade) for nearly two weeks.

 

[Ratchnick]

Just to show how easy it is to overdose, by my math 3 drops of b complex would be an overdose for a 35g duckling (day old mallard size)

Also if you put one ml in a water dish and you had 4 ducklings, if they drank half the water (obviously spilling the other half) that would also be an overdose.

Interesting that this is in stories guide, maybe its not full of typos just information that is not commonplace?

 

[Ratchnick]

Cyanocobalamin is one of the ingredients added to most B Complex's for cattle, I wasn't saying it should be given to ducks, simply showing the risk of overdose toxicity.

Yeah but cyanocobalamin is in durvet b complex, you recommend that all the time.

 

[Sarahf95]

@Isaac 0 please can you help or direct me to someone that can? How much of this should I be administering to my 4 week old crested duckling And how often? He’s had a couple of seizures in the last week as per the vets advice I started him on this on Monday and been giving half a tablet in his water. The container I measure his water in is 600ml.

 

[Isaac 0]

@Isaac 0 please can you help or direct me to someone that can? How much of this should I be administering to my 4 week old crested duckling And how often? He’s had a couple of seizures in the last week as per the vets advice I started him on this on Monday and been giving half a tablet in his water. The container I measure his water in is 600ml.

Sorry to hear about your duck.

I'm assuming your vet thinks this is a thiamine deficiency?

Could you post a picture or tell me the brand name of the bottle you have?

 

[Ratchnick]

Not sure I understand what you're trying to say...



The study shown above states that it takes several hundred times the recommended dose for there to be any possible side effect, it seems pretty safe to me. Hundreds of people have treated their ducks using Cattle B Complex Brands and to my knowledge, there haven't been any toxic side effects reported yet.

Yes this is calculated with the dosage the study say

Not sure I understand what you're trying to say...



The study shown above states that it takes several hundred times the recommended dose for there to be any possible side effect, it seems pretty safe to me. Hundreds of people have treated their ducks using Cattle B Complex Brands and to my knowledge, there haven't been any toxic side effects reported yet.

You put that @ 350 mg/kg it becomes toxic. That Is the number i used for my math. Yes 3 drops is many many times the required dose for a duckling.