Non medicated vs medicated for chicks

[Chickengirl209]

Hi all!
I want to feed my chicks medicated long enough for them to be more cocci resistant, if that’s a thing. I thought I would switch them off of the medicated after a certain amount of time to limit the vitamin blockers.
How long should I keep them on medicated chick feed?

Also, is mash better, or crumble? Which makes less mess?
Thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I want to feed my chicks medicated long enough for them to be more cocci resistant, if that’s a thing. I thought I would switch them off of the medicated after a certain amount of time to limit the vitamin blockers.
How long should I keep them on medicated chick feed?

I wrote this a few years back. if you have questions after you read it, please ask.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Also, is mash better, or crumble? Which makes less mess?

The way they make Mash is to gather all of the ingredients and grind them up to make a powder. The way they make pellets is to dampen Mash, extrude it through a dye, flash dry it, and break it off into pellet length. To make Crumbles they crush the pellets a little to get to crumble form. As long as the analysis and ingredients list are the same, there is no nutritional difference.

One problem with Mash is that the ingredients in powdered form can segregate by specific gravity. The heavier ingredients sink while the lighter ones rise. They may not get a balanced diet. The way you get around that is to make a paste out of the Mash while it is still mixed up. That's why I prefer Crumbles. Less work.

As far as less mess, that depends a lot on how you feed it. They can sweep food of any kind out when eating. Much worse, if they can stand in it they scratch. It's usually less mess and waste if the feeder does not allow them to stand in it and has smaller compartments so they cannot sweep their beaks.

Sometimes it helps to have their feeder on a tray that collects any feed that spills. They might still eat it as long as it is not lost in the ground or coop floor.

 

[Altairsky]

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

This, exactly this.
None of my chicks get medicated food. Not the ones in the brooder, not the ones feral. I never lost a chick to cocci.

 

[rosemarythyme]

To me the best approach is non medicated feed + early exposure to the outdoor environment (whether that's taking them out, or bringing the outdoors in via a clump of dirt and weeds/grass) - plus have Corid or another anti-coccidiostat on hand in case you have to treat for it.

It's the early exposure that helps them develop resistance to whatever strains of coccidia are in your environment. But having treatment on hand will be more reassuring for you, while also allowing you to act quickly if a chick does happen to get overloaded.

 

[Chickengirl209]

I have been taking them outside for 1/2 or a whole hour every other day... They are around 4 days old. The weather has been pretty warm... 65-80 degrees farenheit. They usually really like it. (They've only been out twice, lol.)

I have been feeding them medicated mash so far... The chicks seem to spill it less because it's harder for them to scratch it out. The medication is Amprolium.
Thank you all for your input so much. I will look more into it.

 

[K0k0shka]

The vitamin blocker aspect is only an issue for sickly or defective chickens that have vitamin deficiency problems. And yes I consider silkies defective as a breed in many ways (sorry but they are), one of them being their susceptibility to vitamin deficiencies more than other birds. If you have normal chickens, medicated chick starter is absolutely fine to feed as long as you need to.

What I usually do is I buy a 50lbs bag, because it's cheaper per pound than the small bags, and, so as not to waste feed and money, I start feeding them the medicated starter right from the start, when they are still in the brooder. I take them outside for field trips to get them exposed to soil, grass, etc. When they are about 5 weeks old, I integrate them with the flock, at which point I switch the whole flock to medicated chick starter until the chicks have been outside full time for a couple of weeks (or until I finish the bag, whichever comes first, but if there's more in the bag then I let them finish it - it won't hurt them, and why waste feed and money).

If my chicks are being hatched and raised by a broody in the flock, I still switch the whole flock to medicated starter after the chicks hatch, until they finish a 50lbs bag. Yes, they are outside from the start and exposed to soil, but so what. I don't have silkies or other compromised breeds, the Amprolium won't hurt them, and if it offers an extra layer of help in building up their immunity, I'm all for that. I strongly prefer prevention to treatment, so I'd much rather feed them medicated than keep corid around and take my chances. I have been doing this for years and never had a problem.

 

[ChickNCheery]

I wrote this a few years back. if you have questions after you read it, please ask.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.


The way they make Mash is to gather all of the ingredients and grind them up to make a powder. The way they make pellets is to dampen Mash, extrude it through a dye, flash dry it, and break it off into pellet length. To make Crumbles they crush the pellets a little to get to crumble form. As long as the analysis and ingredients list are the same, there is no nutritional difference.

One problem with Mash is that the ingredients in powdered form can segregate by specific gravity. The heavier ingredients sink while the lighter ones rise. They may not get a balanced diet. The way you get around that is to make a paste out of the Mash while it is still mixed up. That's why I prefer Crumbles. Less work.

As far as less mess, that depends a lot on how you feed it. They can sweep food of any kind out when eating. Much worse, if they can stand in it they scratch. It's usually less mess and waste if the feeder does not allow them to stand in it and has smaller compartments so they cannot sweep their beaks.

Sometimes it helps to have their feeder on a tray that collects any feed that spills. They might still eat it as long as it is not lost in the ground or coop floor.

I was given a bag of medicated chick food. Would it be ok to mix that in with my non-medicated food, or is that a bad idea?

 

[K0k0shka]

I was given a bag of medicated chick food. Would it be ok to mix that in with my non-medicated food, or is that a bad idea?

It's no problem at all.

 

[ChickNCheery]

It's no problem at all.

Thanks!

 

[rosemarythyme]

I was given a bag of medicated chick food. Would it be ok to mix that in with my non-medicated food, or is that a bad idea?

I would not mix, all that does is dilute down the amount of anticoccidiostat they're intaking to below the recommended dose, which could allow for more resistant parasites to survive and reproduce instead.