not all birds are created equal

[ChicagoDucks]

I have a question about bill color genetics in Khaki Campbell ducks. When you breed for the black bill in female KC ducks, when does the color become apparent? Can you tell at hatching? When fully feathered or later? Is the black color recessive or dominant or incompletely dominant? I read the bill color genetics section of Holderread's guide and the duck genetics sticky, but I didn't find an answer to this question.

I have a 7 month old KC duck. When she hatched, she had a light pink bill of uniform color. As she has aged, her bill has gotten darker, it is now about the dark pink-brown color of mud or coffee with cream. It is still uniform, no saddling or color variation. I have a KC drake with good markings & color and a classic blue bill. If I breed them, can I expect any hatchlings to have a black bill? How old do they have to be before I can determine their adult bill color?

 

[Carcajou]

Thank you CelticOaks for starting this thread. I did quite a bit of research before I bought my first ducklings in the spring of 2011. Though I have had some visions of someday hatching my own ducklings I agree with your position, and the position of others I have read during my research, that there is value in selecting only birds with preferred traits for propagating. Having a wildlife biology background I feel this is the best way to ensure top qualities in our various duck breeds and strains. It just makes sense.

I currently have a drake left from my 2011 flock and five ducks raised from a hatchery purchase this past spring. Though the drake established himself as the dominant male in my 2011 flock his colors are a little off so I won't use him to expand my current flock. As well, none of the five girls I purchased this spring exhibit the desired feather coloring though their egg laying has been impeccable - 4 to 5 eggs every day until a few days ago. I also derive a lot of enjoyment in keeping and interacting with my ducks which are also wonderful foragers. As nature eventually slows my flock down I expect to purchase more ducklings from quality hatcheries and perhaps someday will have a preferred drake and duck that I can use for propagating my own small flock.

Let me end by stating that by being serious about keeping genetic traits intact we will ensure all the qualities we want in our pets, egg layers, or meat birds for future generations to enjoy.

Below are a couple of recent photos of my beloveds:

 

[bemba]

This thread is discussing not all birds should be bred.

Ok this is a touchy subject so for those who might get offended, sorry ahead of time, stop reading and find a new thread.

NO FLAMING, no harrassement, no posting just create an arguement
​

NOT all birds are created equal. Or, not every bird deserves to reproduce. Its just that simple, just because you have cute drake quackers and cute duck daisy doesnt mean those eggs need to be hatched. Having pet flocks that you never set eggs from IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE. Eat the eggs, bake with them, give them away, just enjoy them.

If you do chose to breed and hatch ANY birds (chickens, ducks, geese) PLEASE do the breed you are thinking of breeding a HUGE favor and buy a copy of the Standard of Perfect from the APA, around $59 for the current hard copy with full descriptions and color pictures too! It will help guide you in what is and is not a feature/trait you should be breeding.

Be HONEST with yourself on what quality the birds you have is. Just because you bought eggs to hatch or birds from a quality line wont make those you have worth breeding. Improvement of breeds should always be the goal when making the choice to allow animals to reproduce. if you are unwilling to be critical of your own birds, then ASK someone who has high standards to help you access them. Be open to the fact you may hear negative things and that the person you asked for hlp from may tell you not to breed them. Dont get offended, be happy you had someone willing to help you. Be happy you arent flooding the market with sub-standard birds who do nothing for the breed.

Its nice to have our birds sorta help pay for the feed, but be honest, you WONT get rich off of poultry/waterfowl breeding. If you dont have the time and space to dedicate proper separated breeding pens/paddocks/pastures then dont breed. Dont become a "puppy mill" backyard poultry/waterfowl breeder.

I have to disagree, if you think about it most judges judge out of thier rear ends and the more extreme a breed the harder they are to breed hatch etc, The healthiest quite often are just your backyard ducks, they seem to have much more fertility and less health problems. Just my opinion.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I have to disagree, if you think about it most judges judge out of thier rear ends and the more extreme a breed the harder they are to breed hatch etc, The healthiest quite often are just your backyard ducks, they seem to have much more fertility and less health problems. Just my opinion.

I just want to say I love your avatar..

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Sorry you feel that way but we have the membership for the perks and because we are a business not just a small flock pet owner.
The thread is to point out how that just because you have a male and female doesn't mean they should breed.

It's the same for ALL animals.

Genetically weak to genetically weak equals genetically weak

Poor quality to poor quality equals poor quality

There are MANY factors to selecting breeding stock

Vigor
Fertility
SOP

Just to name a few

 

[ChristineR]

I have to disagree, if you think about it most judges judge out of thier rear ends and the more extreme a breed the harder they are to breed hatch etc, The healthiest quite often are just your backyard ducks, they seem to have much more fertility and less health problems. Just my opinion.

I don't agree with your blanket statement about judges, but I do think there is some truth to your comment about "backyard ducks." I'm assuming you mean mixed breeds. That would be an example of hybrid vigor or heterosis.

Definition:
An increase in the performance of hybrids over that of purebreds, most noticeably in traits like fertility and sterility

 

[Carcajou]

The thread is to point out how that just because you have a male and female doesn't mean they should breed.
It's the same for ALL animals.
Genetically weak to genetically weak equals genetically weak
Poor quality to poor quality equals poor quality
There are MANY factors to selecting breeding stock
Vigor
Fertility
SOP
Just to name a few

I agree wholeheartedly with this point. Scientific literature will also back up your statement.

 

[bemba]

I just want to say I love your avatar..

Thanks I own the babies in the pic, they are all grown up now and are absolutely beautiful!

 

[bemba]

Breeding poultry is very different than breeding say dogs or cats IMO I use to show my call ducks at shows but have stopped! I found the judges really had no idea what they were doing, and most people just expected what they said to be gospel. I had birds who definately should have won over others and when I asked the judge how he or she judged they never gave me a straight answer, it was more along the lines of Oh I like that one it's pretty, First prize! And often birds who won champion or other high awards had major faults like crooked legs, deformed bills etc, and I was often looked at like I was just being difficult when I would speak up and say something.I now breed them for my own enjoyment and I eat the birds who don't come up to scratch.

 

[easttxchick]

Sorry you feel that way but we have the membership for the perks and because we are a business not just a small flock pet owner.
The thread is to point out how that just because you have a male and female doesn't mean they should breed.
It's the same for ALL animals.
Genetically weak to genetically weak equals genetically weak
Poor quality to poor quality equals poor quality
There are MANY factors to selecting breeding stock
Vigor
Fertility
SOP
Just to name a few

Are you familiar with the breeding of Call ducks? If so, you would know, unequivically, that that statement is incorrect.

Using the Standard of Perfection as a guide to breed "genetically strong" birds is going to be the demise of these beautiful little creatures. Health problems aplenty are cropping up because people are so determined to downsize these little ducks to meet the SOP. It's sickening to me that due to so many people thinking the same way you do-the "let's breed the perfect bird" crowd, are actually breeding genetic defects into birds based on someone's opinion of what they're supposed to look like. How do I know this? I have several ducks here that were the product of the "breeding the perfect bird" programs and they AIN'T perfect.