Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[jgoldy2]

Now that I remember I have a photo so does this look like a mareks chicken?

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

I tend to look at it like doctors look at cancer. A woman is diagnosed with breast cancer. Has a double mastectomy and is fine for a few years. Then the cancer returns. But now that both her breasts are gone it settles in her liver. She dies 9 months later. What will the doctors tell her family she died from?

Note: saying just 'cancer' is not only the easy way out, it's also wrong. She died of breast cancer. Not liver cancer, not the cold she fought for over a week last April and no, not even of the humiliation she felt after her second mastectomy. She died of breast cancer, pure and simple.

Now, would she have still gotten the liver cancer if she never had the breast cancer first? And would she have beaten that cold she had last April in one day instead of one week? The answer is, we'll never know the answer. The human body, and life in general, is choc full of so many variables that just like there are no two sets of fingerprints the same and no two snowflakes alike, there is no one answer to the questions concerning Marek's.

This is the only example that I can seem to wrap my head around. It may not make sense to anyone but me, I'm used to that. And it may be too simplistic for the majority of you, I can live with that. But it just may hit home with quite a few of you, and I'll obviously be happy about that.

-kim-

I have 1 left that I vaccinated 3 years ago and she's another one who goes back and forth with the skinny wasting. Yesterday she's skin and bones with a full stomach.

I understand what you're saying about breast cancer me metasticising (sp) to other organs still being breast cancer. But I think that if it showed up elsewhere after not being there in the past, I can understand it being called cancer of another organ.

 

[seminolewind]

Now that I remember I have a photo so does this look like a mareks chicken?

It's hard to tell, first by the fact that there are many chicken ailments that have some of the same symptom. It's also hard to tell because of what stage she may be in. Example, generally they look happy and normal aside from paralysis A chicken at the last stage near death may be lethargic and withdrawn.

 

[jgoldy2]

It's hard to tell, first by the fact that there are many chicken ailments that have some of the same symptom. It's also hard to tell because of what stage she may be in. Example, generally they look happy and normal aside from paralysis A chicken at the last stage near death may be lethargic and withdrawn.

Okay, that was the first tim she showed signs and she didnt even that morning

 

[Nambroth]

Now that I remember I have a photo so does this look like a mareks chicken?

She is so pretty. I'm really sorry she is having trouble. My heart goes out to you! It's really hard for us to tell if it's Marek's or not. Even if we could see her in person it would be a guess at the very best; unfortunately a lot of different ailments can cause symptoms like this. If she were mine, I'd try to do a process of elimination of the more common problems, and in the interim offer her a good B vitamin supplement. I like to offer a bit of cold pressed coconut oil too, as it can help with vitamin absorption. This may not help her, but it can't hurt. Unless-- is this the one that you lost? I remember you lost one recently. I'm sorry if it is.

 

[mightymax]

Quote: @seminolewind ...I agree with what you're saying. Most of us usually do refer to cancer in terms of its 'location'. However, in medicine, it's referred to in relation to its point of origin, not to its current location or duration of remission. Also, it was there in the past (so to speak), it was all over your property. You just didn't see it. (Don't worry, I can't see air either...lol !!!)
I was just trying illustrate my idea that once a single chicken in your flock tests positive for Marek's and it dies after showing symptoms that are know to be symptoms of Marek's Disease, it really doesn't matter how long it is before you have another one come down with similar symptoms and die. It still died of Marek's, IMO. It was the precipitating factor in both instances. Perhaps technically you could argue that the second one died of 'mitigating circumstances', or even of 'complications associated with the known symptoms of Marek's'. IDK.
I think I'm just going to call it 'death by Marek's' and chalk another one up to this dreaded disease!

As a side note...the health of my little buff silkie, Pear-Pear, is rapidly declining. I do believe her days are numbered...

Take Care !!!

-kim-

 

[seminolewind]

Kim, sorry you're little Pear-Pear is declining. I agree with you on the Marek's "death by Marek's", LOL. What do you think of what I question below? (anyone?)

In the past 6 months, I've had about 8 die and the visible thing they had in common was wasting. Thru necropsies, they all died of different things. But mainly overgrowth of bacteria or fungus that a chicken normally carries, but somehow grows out of control; cocci, e. coli, aspergillosis.

So now I'm questioning whether this is related to "dying of old age", or dying of Marek's, or dying of e.coli, cocci, or aspergillosis secondary to suppressed immune system , secondary to Marek's.

I can't find info on whether Marek's suppresses the immune system for it's virus growth, or suppresses the immune system for life.

I find plenty of Marek's virus growth, tumor growth and affecting certain parts of the body.
What I can't find is if a chicken is resistant to the tumor growth, a few years later is a chicken dying of illness caused by Marek's, illness secondary to Marek's, or just illness from other causes?

Your quote:

I was just trying illustrate my idea that once a single chicken in your flock tests positive for Marek's and it dies after showing symptoms that are know to be symptoms of Marek's Disease, it really doesn't matter how long it is before you have another one come down with similar symptoms and die. It still died of Marek's, IMO. It was the precipitating factor in both instances. Perhaps technically you could argue that the second one died of 'mitigating circumstances', or even of 'complications associated with the known symptoms of Marek's'. IDK.

I think even if the first chicken dies with paralysis, and the 2nd dies with ocular symptoms, it's still Marek's, right? I feel like Marek's takes the path of least resistance whether it's eyes, nerves, or visceral tumors. But it's still Marek's.

Aside from effects caused by Marek's tumors, what else is there causing "death by Marek's" other than tumors?

This is lengthy but I'm almost asking the same thing over and over, LOL

 

[seminolewind]

Kim, is the example of "lung cancer" later causing "brain cancer" but still lung cancer- is that called metastasis?

 

[jgoldy2]

She is so pretty. I'm really sorry she is having trouble. My heart goes out to you! It's really hard for us to tell if it's Marek's or not. Even if we could see her in person it would be a guess at the very best; unfortunately a lot of different ailments can cause symptoms like this. If she were mine, I'd try to do a process of elimination of the more common problems, and in the interim offer her a good B vitamin supplement. I like to offer a bit of cold pressed coconut oil too, as it can help with vitamin absorption. This may not help her, but it can't hurt. Unless-- is this the one that you lost? I remember you lost one recently. I'm sorry if it is.

Thanks, she was a showmanship bird, but I know that she had a great live and was super loved, I know that she enjoyed her final days eating her 2 favorite foods, tomato seeds and grass, I am hoping to show her sister in her name, however her sister isn't a showmanship girl, so the really bad part is finding a new showmanship chicken, although my Mile Fleur could learn to be healed with out feed support as she prefers

 

[jgoldy2]

Thanks, she was a showmanship bird, but I know that she had a great live and was super loved, I know that she enjoyed her final days eating her 2 favorite foods, tomato seeds and grass, I am hoping to show her sister in her name, however her sister isn't a showmanship girl, so the really bad part is finding a new showmanship chicken, although my Mile Fleur could learn to be healed with out feed support as she prefers

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