Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[seminolewind]

Quote:
This seems to be a forum. I wonder if he still responds.

 

[mightymax]

Hey Seminolewind, how's the head...lol !!! I went to the link you had posted and saw that it was a forum also. So I joined...Don't know what I'm going to say or do or ask on it though...if it's still a functioning forum that is...I found it rather complex in structure but that could have been because I looked at it after I wrote my 'Yes and No' opus...so although my head was numb...it was actually pretty darn sore...

And about the suppressed immune systems that our birds seem to get after being exposed to MD...I read in one of my exceptionally large and astronomically heavy scientific reference books something about 'permanent immunosuppression' being one of the four phases of MD infection. I can't recall exactly what it said, so I'll have to look it up again, but I do believe it at least inferred that MD does cause immunosuppression in chickens. I'll look for it in the morning because right now I'm going to be leaving this 'tank' for my other favorite 'tank'...the 'sleep tank'...

Good Night!

-kim-

 

[lalaland]

It has been a little more than 3 weeks since the first known mareks in the flock (necropsy results).

Entire flock has depressed appetite. Yes, they are molting, but I havent' ever seen such a drop - as in 17 birds are eating less than 10 cups of feed a day. I feed a wet mash and they have range access although it is after hard frosts so very little insects are available and greens are slowing going,

They appear eager to eat - just don't eat much. There are a couple hens that I've been watching because they are "different" but nothing other than occasional posture issues.

Its been 2 weeks since I introduced turkey droppings/litter to the run.

I've added tumeric and garlic to the daily feed. They were dosed with corid about a week ago, and I added probiotics for 5 days afterwards, and they are getting yogurt.

cant tell if my hypervigilence is the problem but I measured the feed these last couple of days. Having said that, this morning they came out of the coop all happy, wings flapping, a few chases around, and dug in.

 

[seminolewind]

Hey Seminolewind, how's the head...lol !!! I went to the link you had posted and saw that it was a forum also. So I joined...Don't know what I'm going to say or do or ask on it though...if it's still a functioning forum that is...I found it rather complex in structure but that could have been because I looked at it after I wrote my 'Yes and No' opus...so although my head was numb...it was actually pretty darn sore...

And about the suppressed immune systems that our birds seem to get after being exposed to MD...I read in one of my exceptionally large and astronomically heavy scientific reference books something about 'permanent immunosuppression' being one of the four phases of MD infection. I can't recall exactly what it said, so I'll have to look it up again, but I do believe it at least inferred that MD does cause immunosuppression in chickens. I'll look for it in the morning because right now I'm going to be leaving this 'tank' for my other favorite 'tank'...the 'sleep tank'...

Good Night!

-kim-

I have a super heavy book too. Diseases of Poultry , chief editor Saif. I'll join that forum too. I'll just hope if we ask a question, someone "lucky" scientist will reply.

I am just wondering if those exposed 4-5 years ago could all have immunosuppression. And how would one know? That's just it. How to find a positive without an active illness.

How about malabsorbsion?

 

[seminolewind]

It has been a little more than 3 weeks since the first known mareks in the flock (necropsy results).

Entire flock has depressed appetite. Yes, they are molting, but I havent' ever seen such a drop - as in 17 birds are eating less than 10 cups of feed a day. I feed a wet mash and they have range access although it is after hard frosts so very little insects are available and greens are slowing going,

They appear eager to eat - just don't eat much. There are a couple hens that I've been watching because they are "different" but nothing other than occasional posture issues.

Its been 2 weeks since I introduced turkey droppings/litter to the run.

I've added tumeric and garlic to the daily feed. They were dosed with corid about a week ago, and I added probiotics for 5 days afterwards, and they are getting yogurt.

cant tell if my hypervigilence is the problem but I measured the feed these last couple of days. Having said that, this morning they came out of the coop all happy, wings flapping, a few chases around, and dug in.

Did they find anything other than Marek's? Anything secondary to Marek's? Even mine seem very happy but skinny. I have a flock of 8 that devour food fast. The rest take forever to empty a bowl.

I think maybe if you already have a positive, turkey litter may not do anything. Just so frustrating.

 

[lalaland]

Mareks in the first one, the other two chickens went to the lab a week later . Vet said "no evidence of mareks", and other than the plasma infiltrate in the eyes of the hen, which I had assumed was mareks, there was just:

" The upper small intestine
(duodenum) of both bird contains moderate numbers of coccidial oocysts and schizonts (coccidiosis)." I treated with corid. I asked him what moderate meant, but his answer was just that it was good that I treated them with corid.

Now one was a 4 or 5 year old hen, the other a 6 week old rooster.


Yeah, I just tried the turkey litter because I had heard from some folks who had mareks, added the turkey litter, and had no further problems with new chickens after that, one going on 9 years later and still no further problems. So am hoping that it helps future birds.

Are the slow eaters in the one group of yours molting now?

 

[seminolewind]

Your necropsy ordeal sounds like mine. I know they have it. I've gotten 3 negatives, 3 varying enteritis, opportunistic bacteria and cocci, and e. coli, and one Aspergillosis.

Yes my skinny old farts are molting.

I have a skinny "vaccinated" Polish hen on my patio in a hutch who is skinny and slept all day yesterday. Her appetite seems real good. I wormed her a few days ago, and have her on Tylan and sulfadimethoxine to cover the stuff in the 3 necropsies.

I really have to stop obsessing over these appetites. I should stop running behind them with the feed bowl, LOL

 

[jgoldy2]

That is the major problem, jgoldy2. An exposed chicken, whether they get symptoms or not, are vaccinated or not, still spew dander with infective virus. So if one of your flock is positive, the flock is exposed as well. The vaccine can prevent the tumors, but not stop the virus from spreading rapidly.

Okay how long should I watch my flock, it was found about a month ago and I have not seen any more signs in my flock

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I would think that if your chicken had Marek's, she would not be the only one to become symptomatic. Marek's has no defined rules about how long, how bad, whether they get the tumors, etc. If your dad can help you, he can draw blood from a living chicken and send it to Texas A&M for a PCR test.

There are quite a few diseases that look just like Marek's, and it's hard for anyone to know unless they have testing done. Usually you can improve a guess by having a good flock history about who got sick how long after you brought a new chicken home. Hopefully your father made a really good guess. But guesses are guesses.

 

[mightymax]

...

...what an image that conjures up in my head !!! There goes a half dozen or so skinny-assed chickens, followed in hot pursuit by a crazy ol' chicken lady in a big floppy hat holding an enormous jar of freeze dried meal worms screeching, "Here, here now chickie, chickie you can't have any pudding 'til you eat all your meat" all the way down the block !!!

<any fans of 'Jethro Tull' out there

>

Oh boy...that was fun !!! (not that I picture you that way of course

...lol !!!)


OK...back to the business at hand.
Regarding those that were exposed 4-5 years ago and whether or not they should all be considered immunosuppressed, I would definitely tailor my
husbandry practices to accommodate the notion that they were. I'd rather err on the side of caution with this disease. But the question still remains, When those chickens who were exposed to MD 4-5 years ago die, what will be written on their death certificates? Death by Marek's or Death by Unknown/Secondary Illness/Other ???
I don't know what the correct answer to that would be...Death Suspect for Marek's with Extenuating Circumstances...IDK

I really haven't
got a clue !!! If this were a perfect universe and the world actually did revolve around me (hahaha !!!) I would categorize ALL the exposed chickens' deaths as Marek's deaths and be done with it. Why, you ask? Well, since 'I don't know' just doesn't give the disease (nor my chickens) any justice here, I'd
have to say that...

...sometimes we just have to take it on faith...


For me anyways, that one statement can answer many of those open-ended questions that we all have when we get to talking about MD.
I'm not a religious person by design, tending to lean more towards the scientific, but I do consider myself to be spiritual. and as such, sometimes I find
that by just letting things 'be' for a bit, the answers will eventually come and the questions will usually resolve themselves. Now as high and mighty as that may sound, I'll be the first one to tell you that although faith is something I believe in, it is, without a doubt, not what I am always able to trust nor utilize in my everyday life...lol !!!

Anyway, back at the ranch...

Every one of my chickens that has presented with symptoms that qualified it to carry the title of 'Marek's Disease' victim number so-and-so, has been a ravenous (albeit, rather anorexic-looking) little wisp of a thing. They hadn't always been that way. Only when the symptoms become most pronounced have they been able to succeed at the seemingly incongruous task of eating like they have a hollow leg AND looking as if there'll be no tomorrow. Don't know why that is...malabsorption, MD induced hyperthyroidism, just can't seem to get in their mouth...could be any number of reasons. All I know is that mine were kinda like me...all about food up until the very end!

And with that, I think I will just let the rest of the questions 'be'...
For tonight anyway!

-kim-
...sorry about the length and the obsessive/compulsive way I use spacing !!! And apparently exclamation marks as well !!!