Quote:
I am done! You got 2 on board~
I am done! You got 2 on board~
Officer (Leskin) Well I swear this is never ending post 306
- Thread starter Holly O
- Start date
Time to unleash the chicken masses!
Quote:
I understand you don't want to live in a dark house with draperies closed all the time. May I recommend reflective window film? You can see out perfectly but outsiders get a reflection when they look in. It will also keep your house cooler in the summer. It's not expensive and the less information you give her the better. It seems that she is very good at taking a little truth and making it into a large problem. You'll have an easier time defending yourself if her accusations have little or no truth in them.
After the hearing....no matter which way it goes. You might look into the noise ordinance and determine the exact maximum decibel rating that is allowed in your back yard. Just a thought.
I understand you don't want to live in a dark house with draperies closed all the time. May I recommend reflective window film? You can see out perfectly but outsiders get a reflection when they look in. It will also keep your house cooler in the summer. It's not expensive and the less information you give her the better. It seems that she is very good at taking a little truth and making it into a large problem. You'll have an easier time defending yourself if her accusations have little or no truth in them.
After the hearing....no matter which way it goes. You might look into the noise ordinance and determine the exact maximum decibel rating that is allowed in your back yard. Just a thought.
Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is intended as legal advice. Consult your own attorney before taking any action.
First, I'm sorry you're going through this, but PLEASE be careful about relying on any legal information given to you over a message board. Although your friends are on your side and well-meaning, unless they actually know the law and how it pertains to you in PA, it could harm your case rather than help it.
This may have been prompted by your neighbor, but put her and your dislike of the officer out of your mind. Focus on the ticket and the city statute.
It looks like he has cited you for violation of a Township Zoning Ordinance. Therefore, it isn't a state violation; It's a municipal one. The only place this will be heard is your municipal court. Underneath there is the number 144. I can't tell with my blind old eyes, but is that the cite for ordinance number? Also down at the bottom there is an an "enacted" date of December 1993. I'm assuming that is the date the ordinance in question was enacted.
You need a copy of that ordinance. Only by looking at it will you know if you are in jeopardy or not. You should be able to get a copy of it at city hall. If there is NO code or ordinance violation number on the citation, go down to the courthouse and ask for a copy of the written complaint. It may only be the ticket in there. They may say no. But it can't hurt to ask.
When you go to court, insist that they provide you with the citation for what you are actually charged with. You are entitled to it and cannot prepare a defense without it. Read the actual language carefully. Is this just a general nuisance statute? Does it require some sort of harm or that someone be offended? Is there a notice requirement? Was the notice supposed to be in writing?
If you can find a local lawyer to help you, that would be super. Is there a legal clinic near you?
Good luck and best wishes!
Soccer Mom, lawyer and chicken lover (who unfortunately lives much to far away to be of any use to you in court).
First, I'm sorry you're going through this, but PLEASE be careful about relying on any legal information given to you over a message board. Although your friends are on your side and well-meaning, unless they actually know the law and how it pertains to you in PA, it could harm your case rather than help it.
This may have been prompted by your neighbor, but put her and your dislike of the officer out of your mind. Focus on the ticket and the city statute.
It looks like he has cited you for violation of a Township Zoning Ordinance. Therefore, it isn't a state violation; It's a municipal one. The only place this will be heard is your municipal court. Underneath there is the number 144. I can't tell with my blind old eyes, but is that the cite for ordinance number? Also down at the bottom there is an an "enacted" date of December 1993. I'm assuming that is the date the ordinance in question was enacted.
You need a copy of that ordinance. Only by looking at it will you know if you are in jeopardy or not. You should be able to get a copy of it at city hall. If there is NO code or ordinance violation number on the citation, go down to the courthouse and ask for a copy of the written complaint. It may only be the ticket in there. They may say no. But it can't hurt to ask.
When you go to court, insist that they provide you with the citation for what you are actually charged with. You are entitled to it and cannot prepare a defense without it. Read the actual language carefully. Is this just a general nuisance statute? Does it require some sort of harm or that someone be offended? Is there a notice requirement? Was the notice supposed to be in writing?
If you can find a local lawyer to help you, that would be super. Is there a legal clinic near you?
Good luck and best wishes!
Soccer Mom, lawyer and chicken lover (who unfortunately lives much to far away to be of any use to you in court).
- Thread starter
- #95
Quote:
I understand that this is all advice and not legal council.. smile
But their has been several things mentioned that I researched and found helpful to my case.
A BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
I have a copy of the ordinance and 144 is the ordinance # he is citing me on. Which only states that I live in a residential zoned area. No specifics on pets listed with it.
I understand that this is all advice and not legal council.. smile
But their has been several things mentioned that I researched and found helpful to my case.
A BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
I have a copy of the ordinance and 144 is the ordinance # he is citing me on. Which only states that I live in a residential zoned area. No specifics on pets listed with it.
- Thread starter
- #96
Quote:
I understand you don't want to live in a dark house with draperies closed all the time. May I recommend reflective window film? You can see out perfectly but outsiders get a reflection when they look in. It will also keep your house cooler in the summer. It's not expensive and the less information you give her the better. It seems that she is very good at taking a little truth and making it into a large problem. You'll have an easier time defending yourself if her accusations have little or no truth in them.
After the hearing....no matter which way it goes. You might look into the noise ordinance and determine the exact maximum decibel rating that is allowed in your back yard. Just a thought.
I thought of the reflective film for my windows just the other day and will pick some up this week. Thank you.
As to the the noise ordinance... 8 hens make less noise than I do...lol I no longer have a rooster. My husband Plays his bass Guitar nightly ... I love it. We do shut it down by 10pm
I understand you don't want to live in a dark house with draperies closed all the time. May I recommend reflective window film? You can see out perfectly but outsiders get a reflection when they look in. It will also keep your house cooler in the summer. It's not expensive and the less information you give her the better. It seems that she is very good at taking a little truth and making it into a large problem. You'll have an easier time defending yourself if her accusations have little or no truth in them.
After the hearing....no matter which way it goes. You might look into the noise ordinance and determine the exact maximum decibel rating that is allowed in your back yard. Just a thought.
I thought of the reflective film for my windows just the other day and will pick some up this week. Thank you.
As to the the noise ordinance... 8 hens make less noise than I do...lol I no longer have a rooster. My husband Plays his bass Guitar nightly ... I love it. We do shut it down by 10pm
Quote:
Sorry horsejody but those first six words reminded me of "If I Were A Rich Man" from the Fiddler on the Roof!
"If I were a rich man, yuba diba diba diba diba diba diba diba dumb!"
Sorry horsejody but those first six words reminded me of "If I Were A Rich Man" from the Fiddler on the Roof!
"If I were a rich man, yuba diba diba diba diba diba diba diba dumb!"
Holly has the complete ordinance in question. It does not have any language that prohibits chickens, or even mentions them. She has a lawyer who has looked at the ordinance and told her that he sees nowhere in the ordinance that they are prohibited.
Many places on this thread and the other two it is recommended that she consult an attorney. You are correct, legal advice given on this forum is not at all the same as advice by a lawyer licensed in her state. What we can do is point out the various inconsistencies and look at the written statute and give common language interpretations of what it says. These are things she can bring up with her attorney who will choose to use them or not, based upon whether he feels they are pertinent and helpful, or not.
The citation given to her is the actual citatation. Somewhere there has to be a list of fines for various offenses.
I personally do not think that arguing that the officer has only hearsay of the chickens and duck being present is worthwhile. Especially since in conversations with him and other officials over the course of this fiasco both Holly and her DH have acknowledged that they have them.
What would be helpful to Holly and her attorney is knowing the specific language (something like Page x, xth paragraph that reads "...") that was used to construe that chickens are disallowed.
Many places on this thread and the other two it is recommended that she consult an attorney. You are correct, legal advice given on this forum is not at all the same as advice by a lawyer licensed in her state. What we can do is point out the various inconsistencies and look at the written statute and give common language interpretations of what it says. These are things she can bring up with her attorney who will choose to use them or not, based upon whether he feels they are pertinent and helpful, or not.
The citation given to her is the actual citatation. Somewhere there has to be a list of fines for various offenses.
I personally do not think that arguing that the officer has only hearsay of the chickens and duck being present is worthwhile. Especially since in conversations with him and other officials over the course of this fiasco both Holly and her DH have acknowledged that they have them.
What would be helpful to Holly and her attorney is knowing the specific language (something like Page x, xth paragraph that reads "...") that was used to construe that chickens are disallowed.
- Thread starter
- #99
I want to have all of the people involved Investigated to their professionalism in the field of work they are employed with my tax dollars.
I'm waiting on a response to my phone call to the District Attorney General.
I'm not sure where else to go with that.
I also would like to find out what the other township zoning ordinances state that are around me. I'll be on the phone for some time with that.
I'll be putting a call into the Department of Agriculture. to have their take on anything.
Any other suggestions as to Who I should contact?
I'm waiting on a response to my phone call to the District Attorney General.
I'm not sure where else to go with that.
I also would like to find out what the other township zoning ordinances state that are around me. I'll be on the phone for some time with that.
I'll be putting a call into the Department of Agriculture. to have their take on anything.
Any other suggestions as to Who I should contact?
Quote:
Sounds like here in Broward County! I think I was told it was like $50.00 a day. Thats after you go to court. I keep mine out of view of my nosey neighbor. I told the hubby if animal control comes back with a citation, I'll ask him to prove they are here. The ACO even told me to hide them. I really think this stinks, I mean, we're talking about chickens, not cougars for crying out loud!
I agree with everyone, fight them and hold your ground.
Sounds like here in Broward County! I think I was told it was like $50.00 a day. Thats after you go to court. I keep mine out of view of my nosey neighbor. I told the hubby if animal control comes back with a citation, I'll ask him to prove they are here. The ACO even told me to hide them. I really think this stinks, I mean, we're talking about chickens, not cougars for crying out loud!
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