Oh NO! Another problem in our tiny flock... impacted crop now?

[SeaChick]

Darn! Darn! Darn!!!!!!!!!!

The vet called and they won't tell me anything without looking at her! I mostly want to know whether its impacted or "sour" (fungal or bacterial) so i can decide what to do...... but they need to see her in person. And this vet is an hour away AND costs $50 just for the office visit! My husband (who is in the middle of the gulf stream in a boat in between Noel and another big front, so I cannot discuss it with him, would KILL me if I spent that money!!!!!

So now I am back to square one... how to treat. I read a WHOLE BUNCH of useful stuff on the-coop.org, treatments for either condition, but they are totally different, for sour crop its a flush back UP the esophagus... for impacted its oil and massage DOWN.....

Darn!!! Darn!!!! Darn!!!!!

Olivia confirms that she's thinner than she was 5 days ago, and when I massage her crop, all this flaky feather-quill-dust comes off like dandruff. Is that normal (never massaged our other girls' crops) or a sign of deteriorating health?

Ugh. Why so difficult?

 

[redwa]

Chances are it is neither sour crop or impacted crop, YET, just an obstruction that probably won't pass completely. It has probably gone on too long and the mass sounds too large to pass through to the gizzard, especially if it is hay. Sounds like some food is getting through (pooping - not impacted) but not enough to give her the nutrition she needs, that's why she is losing weight. I would definitely have a vet intervene otherwise she is slowly starving to death.

 

[dlhunicorn]

I have a suggestion for you which might be "doable" .... If a vet really isn't an option then try to get in touch with a bird rehabber... they will have the experience you lack in dealing with crop issues or will know perhaps an affordable vet in your area that will be willing to help you out ...
Whatever you do, do NOT try and "push" the crop gunk UP... I too have read of this suggestion at different sites and it is truly illadvised since a bird has no epiglottis to close off the opening leading into the airways/lungs (when you look in your birds mouth you will see two openings) when the gunk is pushed UP (back out through the beak) it will usually get in there and cause infection if not asphyxiation.
Here is a search engine to find a rehabber:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contact.htm
(not all will be trained to deal with birds but most are or will know someone who is) tell them it is your PET chicken!

 

[SeaChick]

Thanks guys,

Yeah, I really didn't feel comfortable with the whole regurgitation procedure... luckily Penelope seems to have made SOME progress this morning:
Her crop is smaller! Not empty, mind you, but smaller for certain.
She pooped 3 times over night. First two were masses of grass, fairly normal-looking but a lot of grass, third looked like maybe pellets of food (though the last pellets she had were yesterday noon, could they take that long to pass?) in a frothy liquid. I am going to look up the frothy poop thing now, as that didn't seem too normal.
So...... putting together all the advice here and at the-coop.org, here's my plan for today:
She just ate some bread soaked in olive oil. I am going to get some mineral oil at the pharmacy after Olivia goes to school, as I was told this passes undigested so is a better lubricant.
I gave her a small amount of plaing yogurt (organic, multiple live cultures).
I will continue with the crop massage every hour or so and monitor the contents.

Maybe she will be able to empty the whole thing out. If not, I will look for a bird rehabber. I do know that there are some locally since Olivia and I once brought a chimney swift there.

OK, hope I don't jinx myself by thinking ahead here, but if she does empty the crop, then what? I suspect I should keep her inside and eating yogurt and regular food for a while to get the crop bacteria happy again, and keep her from eating grass and hay again. But then--- when she goes back, how to keep it from happening again? Is it possible this was brought on by the stress of moving? Should I remove all the hay from the run and have them on plain dirt?

Thanks...

 

[dlhunicorn]

hay/straw etc seems always to be involved in crop issues and for that reason I do not let it anywhere around my birds (I use shavings in the nest) ... other people say they have never had any problems but I am not willing to take that risk. If and when you do manage to get the crop empty you can add ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) to the water (but please test the natural pH of your water first (a place that sells acquarium and pond supplies will have those cheap strips to test the water pH) and THEN add ACV till it reaches 4.5)

OR you may want to try this:
http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/extsoln.htm
".....COPPER SULFATE SOLUTION
Use this solution as a treatment for mycosis (mold infection) in the crop. An alternate name for the condition is "Thrush". Use the solution as a "follow-up" treatment after flushing with epsom salt solution--refer to the section for LAXATIVE SOLUTIONS.....
Dissolve .5 lb copper sulfate and .5 cup vinegar into 1 gallon of water
for a "stock" solution.
Dispense stock solution at the rate of 1 oz per gallon
for the final drinking solution.
An alternate method of preparing the solution is:

dissolve 1 oz copper sulfate and 1 tablespoon of vinegar into 15 gallons water.
Use either solution as the sole water source during the course of the disease outbreak. Copper sulfate is often referred to as "bluestone"."
ETA: course of treatment is 3-5 days I believe)
....

 

[SeaChick]

Oh, no!!! I am so upset!!!!!!!

I called around to bird rehabilitators. One lady said try Terramycin (although I thoguht that was BAD if its sour crop, re: killing beneficial bacteria) and the others said they could not dispense veterinary advice without seeing the bird but suggested I try to find a vet to run a stool sample to rule out parasites and maybe a throat swab.

Then I spent an hour tracking down the only 2 avian vets within 2 hours of me, and they both WILL NOT do the stool sample without seeing the bird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they estimated up to $150 for the visit and tests!!!!!!!!! My husband is in the middle of the ocean on a boat and I can't discuss this with him and I don't know what to do.

Meanwhile poor Penny.... her last poop didn't look good: it was watery with undigested layer pellets in it (and the last layer pellets she had were yesterday noon. How long does a chickens digestion take normally?)

I just don't know what to do. On the one hand I really feel responsible for her since we are her caretakers. Really, it's our responsibility to do whatever we can. On the other hand, we really just flat out can't afford to spend that much money.

I just can't beleive our bad luck. I've had pets all my life and never had an issue this expensive before... and this in a hen we just got 6 days ago!

I guess I will just keep doing what we're doing and watch and wait and hope she pulls through.

Stacey

 

[thndrdancr]

Seachick,
Ifs it the good yogurt with active cultures, it will NOT kill the good bacteria. In fact it promotes good bacteria, maybe that woman didnt know this. Calm down girl, your doing the best you can, take a deep breath.
Not sure I would try anymore bread in olive oil, cuz sometimes bread can plug stuff up. Your doing wonderful and all you can do for the poor bird.
Hugs
Jill

 

[redwa]

Unfortunately, when hay is involved - especially if it is a large mass of it you may be able to massage down the other debris around it but you still need to break down the hay mass itself in order for it to pass. When there is too much of it this is very difficult. You may want to try giving her papaya enzymes to help with this. But I think the sooner you get someone to help the better before her overall health is further compromised. I would also not be feeding her any pellets, only babyfood or mash.

 

[thndrdancr]

The reason you need good bacteria is to help fight the bad, antibiotics tips this balance becuz they kill ALL bacteria, good AND bad, then the bad rather take over, causing yeast or fungal problems many times.

Clear enuff?

 

[dlhunicorn]

Do NOT give antibiotics
Call around to your farm vets and see if you can find a sympathetic one who has had some experience perhaps with pet birds (because they may need to do a crop flush etc.) and see if they aren't willing to help you treat your bird...be sure to tell them it is a PET.