Ok.. so I'm not buying the whole.... Updated with pics...breeding hens

[deerman]

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That would be the white rock......yes I know they take longer to reach butcher age. Point is there are other breeds for meat,but the best are the cross.

 

[uhuh555]

We are in our third generation of line breeding with the Cornish x. Started with 2 roos 6 hens, controlled feeding with many nutrient rich additions to commercial feeds. Dividing roos and hens between 2 runs and separate inside shelters. Using artificial insemination to ensure egg fertility were able to hatch 157 (83/74 form each line) chicks from 213 total eggs laid and incubated. Saved 3 hens and 1 roo from both lines (total 8). All other chicks kept to age 8 weeks then butchered--weights were 3.5 to 5 # each.

First generation chicks were raised and breed back to parents giving us 4 separate lines (in 4 separate pens). Doing the same again incubated 914 eggs hatching 723 chicks. Kept 1 roo and 3 hens from each line (total 8) and breed back to original parents replacing first generation with second generation. The weight range for these chicks at 8 weeks was 3.25 to 5.75# each.

We are now getting ready to start the third generation now.

The third generation chicks will be kept separate so we can compare weights from each line. The second generation produced lower and higher weight range from the first generation. The difference in weights may indicate which (roo or hen) side of the line breeding pairing results in better weight gain.

The costs per chick comes out (not including time) being slightly over $0.74. With time included it would be cheaper to buy them. But if we figure out which cross gives us the best weight gain and ability to sustain the line it will give us the independence desired and will be worth the effort.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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I understand what your saying but the parent stock looks nothing like the cornish or the rocks... they are way different. Same with the GP Stock. I know they will not breed true, but they will be true to type... as far as big and meaty. With time you could make them more uniform just like any other line breeding.

My whole point is... both sided of the parent flocks look identical to the offspring they produce. Neither one resembles a cornish or a rock... they just look like a big whit chicken. The only difference is the female line is bred for laying capabilities as well as meat. So what if you get chicks that resemble their sires and dams... my point is if they are not fed a restricted diet they all have very heavy broiler type bodies.

It would take more than one breeding to keep them breeding true.... the first few years you may have mixed weights but they are not going to be mixed as greatly as you may think. Even the female lines of broilers both parent and GP are bigger than any DP breed I have ever seen.

 

[Buster52]

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That is so cool. Keep us posted with how that is all going.

Are you trying to create something where you won't have to cross different lines to get good results?

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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There ya go... that is experience talking for ya...

if your getting dressed weights of 3.5 to 5 lbs at 8 weeks that's amazing. But not a surprise as it proves my point... in about 4-5 years you can have yourself a very sustainable flock and be self efficient. I can't think of one DP breed that will dress out at 3.5 lbs in 8 weeks. Can you?

 

[BeardedLadyFarm]

It seems like you could get a pure breeding line of cornish x sized meaties, but would they be able to mate naturally?

Since what is commonly raised is a f1 hybrid, I would expect the f2 generation to show a wide range of traits. Some would probably be awful, and some would probably be close to what you're looking for. After a few generations this could theoretically be stabilized. (with the help of diet an IA...)

 

[Brunty_Farms]

See broilers are like any other chickens... they just get a horrible rap sheet for growing fast. But I see so many people on here that are trying to cross such and such DP breed to see what they get... with hopes of a better bird for meat. In the end you get a very mixed result...

These cornish x rocks have already been bred to do exactly what people are attempting to repeat. All that was done was selective breeding over 60 years and see what you get? Just because there are four lines involved doesn't mean that you can't breed something very similar with the offspring.

If your crossing multiple DP breeds to get a line that dresses out in 16 weeks what wrong with playing with certain lines of x rocks and getting one that dresses out in 10 weeks.

My whole point is that even though they are from four lines... all for lines are very close to body type and structure.... all four lines are bigger than any DP breed that is currently available. I think if someone tried... they could line breed two to three lines and get very... very good results.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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Broilers are not AI'ed as it's too cost effective. The parent lines are just fed a very strict diet... and after about 50 some weeks the roosters are removed and replaced as they are worn out.

I think if these same birds were able to free range and get the benefits of being a chicken... they will preform quite well.

Even though it's a f1 hybrid... it is still extremely close to both of it's parents. It's not like crossing a Rhode Island Red male to a Delaware female... where you would get sex-linked chicks. The chicks are different colors... and if bred back to the mother or father their offspring will be an array of colors. However their body type will be very close the same as Delaware's and Rhode Island Reds are about the same size....

Since in meat birds... color doesn't matter and only size... I think that the f2 and f3 offspring will generate extremely well uniform chicks. The only difference in size would be a few runts and the obvious difference between male and female.

 

[Buster52]

Jeff, I think the problem here is you are actually talking about creating a whole new breed. I don't know a lot about that, but it does seem like that takes crossing two or more breeds back and forth for several generations to do it. That doesn't negate the well established axiom that hybrids of two different breeds do not breed true. Based on how much work uhuhh555 is doing and how long it is taking, I think that fact is borne out. Hybrids do not breed true.

Maybe your subject line could use rewording. Might be throwing people off as to what you are actually trying to say.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Ya your right.. I fixed it.

Kinda confusing....