Ok.. so I'm not buying the whole.... Updated with pics...breeding hens

[deerman]

Quote:
Jeff so true, like I have tried keeping some for layers. They make good layers of nice jumbo eggs, but man can they eat!!!!

Yes these chickens can live longer, just dont overfeed. If you watch their health you can keep them for a few years, just like all hens, egg production drop off after 18 month of age.

 

[feetsoup]

Remember that all breeds originally came from hybrids... You just have to only breed back the ones with the traits you are selecting for and eventually they become standardized and breed true.

You will lose that hybrid vigor as they start breeding true, so I don't imagine these theoretical new chickens will ever match the Cornish X in performance, but I think you could get to the point where it was pretty close. Certainly I think they'd blow away any DP breed currently out there.

 

[CARS]

Quote:

I have switched from popcorn to some barley pop for this conversation, but I have been reading up on "dual purpose" breeds for the last month and every time someone brings up the whole argument about breeding true I am baffled. NOTHING is true anymore. It doesn't matter if it's chickens or humans. The best try to breed with the best in nature and when forced in a breeding pen you should eventually get a "purpose breed" line.

What is true??? Until someone actually shows me a pure breed, I call BS too. I think this can be done. It was done a hundred years ago for dual purpose, we just need to lean the scale to the meat side at the expense of the eggs without giving up the eggs totally. That, and let them breed without our intervention (AI).

 

[TimG]

Quote:
I only used those as hypothetical examples because you had mentioned those traits. I have no idea whether wide breasts are dominant or recessive, more likely incompletely dominant. I just meant to say that just because you breed two chickens that are big (or wide or tall or red or whatever) doesn't mean you will get all big offspring. You're going to get more variety.

If it really was as easy as limiting feed and putting them on pasture, lots of people would have done it by now.

Another thing is that if you select for keepers those that are healthy and active at 8 or 12 or 16 weeks, you will likely be picking the slower growers. That is, by their very survival to breeding age you might be selecting inferior (as far as quick growing meat qualities go) stock.

I hope you go through with this and see what happens. If I were nearby, I'd try to get involved -- the more people experimenting, the more likely something good will happen.

In fact, I had a Cornish Cross pullet, a Colored Ranger Pullet and two Colored Ranger cockerels this summer that I planned to keep and see what they would produce, but a stray dog got all but one, so he went to the freezer. I plan to start again in the spring.

 

[heymikey]

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As well as a goal of creating a meatie that breeds true why not have the breeding program that creates the P1 and P2 per you example and having those producing your meat stock for a year and then rinse and repeat. Would it cost a little more?...yes, but you are still self sustaining and don't need to rely on a hatchery.

 

[TimG]

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As you say, this will be less efficient; you will have to maintain at least three breeding pens (one for each parent line and one for the cross). You'll also have to figure out something to do with the off-sex chickens (and in the paternal line you won't be using nearly all the cockerels) you don't use from the parent lines. Presumably they will not be good enough to sell for meat (or you wouldn't need to cross them with the other parent line) and they're not likely to be efficient layers.

For individuals hoping to become independent, you could certainly use the culls from the parent lines for stew birds. And, I think that an enterprising individual could find a market for excess birds by finding a dog breeder or individuals who use the RAW food diet for their dogs. By including the secondary markets in the equation we're really looking at two different types of people who would be undertaking this sort of program: 1) the independent homesteader and 2) the farmer who raises meat for market. The objectives and requirements for each will overlap but also be distinct.

 

[deerman]

If you want to breed good meatie, just keep white rock laying flock, trick is finding the white cornish rooster.......... When in Rome do as the Romans do.......

 

[Buster52]

duplicate post deleted

 

[al6517]

I have been looking at this idea for several years and in just the last year I have been able to really get things going. My Coops and breeder pens are ready and the best and most grueling part was searching and aquiring good parent stock, which I now have with more coming this spring. I own several good pairs of White Standard Cornish and White Rocks all of exceptional quality. This year I plan to get aggressive in getting numbers on the ground, I understand what everybody is talking about but this project to attain a good quality self sustaining meat bird lies in creating a new breed, this is a project that will take years in reality, and require extreme dedication and hard work. Something the common backyard guy will be overwhelmed by because it takes time, effort, research, and a good working knowledge of genetics to just name a few, I am off to work in a few so I don't have allot of time this morning to discuss the topic, I would like to come back and visit at length this evening.


AL

 

[TimG]

Quote:
I think the hybrid vigor associated with maintaining two parent lines may tip things in favor of that approach rather than a new breed.

I'm quite interested in how your project goes. From what I have read the lines that the commercial breeders keep no longer really resemble Rocks and Cornish, but good quality Cornish and Rocks seems as good a place as any to start.