Ok.. so I'm not buying the whole.... Updated with pics...breeding hens

[Buster52]

Hey, Al, I was wondering when you were going to chime in here.

I think this is one of the most important threads I have seen in this Meat Bird forum yet. I have been curious for a while why people were able to create the Broad Breasted turkey breeds that are able to breed true, yet nothing similar yet exists for the chicken. I'm convinced it is largely about economics. Once the breed is created, where is the financial payback when anyone can take that animal and duplicate it in their back yard?

But if someone is truly able to do that, and backyard folks can stop shipping in birds every season, and the bird is anywhere near the Cornish X or even the Freedom Rangers... well, that's good for the backyard homesteader, good for the small farmer, good for the local economy, and good for the environment.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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This is true... and this is probably why the industry hasn't done what we are doing. Like stated before when you make breed you have to line breed to get the traits you want losing that hybrid vigor. I think when the industry crosses these lines for every breeding guarantees that vigor and high performance.

I think though for most people those high standards are not needed. If you can get a chicken that weighs 3.5 - 5 lbs in 8 weeks that is basically all anyone would really need.

 

[al6517]

Well............ so many good talking points, First I do think that over time Hybrid vigor will be lost if not maintained on purpose, without it you won't be able to achieve the rapid growth rates associated with good quality meat birds. The commercial guy's have a lock on this and won't let go of this hold on the industry.

I thought I would try and breed a bird that offers several traits that would appeal to the type folks who want sustainability. This doesn't mean a bird that grows so big so fast that it cannot live past a very short time well before it can lay, and that has to starts with a look at the Physiolgy it takes to do that. A strong heart and circulatory system, a strong large bone structure that will allow good range of motion that can sustain a well muscled body well beyond a year or two. A bird that is ready for the table in 16-20 weeks at a range of 5-7 lbs of well proportioned meat. I think quality of the meat is also important as the bird get's older, imagine processing any of these for any reason at over a year old and the meat still be of the same quality. That is the essence of sustainability.

A lofty goal I know and with many pitfalls, but as the OP stated with his thoughts on breeding Crosses to each other shows he is thinking and challenging the old school of thought that there is only one way to do things. I am of the same mind of why not do something different, why not try it. The whole sustainability movement has always concentrated on raising, feeding, and processing hatchery birds with their focus on economics and efficency. Well h3ll thats the easy part, breeding and hatching that stock is the challenge, those of us that live in the poultry world have at one point a project we would like to explore and this is mine.

I hope we can keep this thread going so we may talk on some of the finer points we all have rolling around in our heads.


AL

 

[My Little Sister's Farm]

All I can say is genetics is a lot harder than you think. It isn't a simple math equation of 1 gene plus 1 gene equals either this or that. There are so many pairings that will control different things. There are poultry professors that can't pin point where on the dna the brown egg genes are, they've identified 13. It takes more than a google page and breeding 2 chickens together. You will have fertility and laying issues regardless of diet. You are focusing on a "male" characteristic in muscle development and will have to sacrifice the female characteristics of # of eggs and fertility to do such.

 

[al6517]

Yes.................. Genetics is critical and it will not be easy, so many things to consider that cannot be seen by the naked eye when selecting which birds to keep for breeders. I am planning on a research marathone over the next few years and possibly even some basic lab work to help, if anything it should be fun and challenging. Kinda like the I'll die trying saying LOL.

AL

 

[CARS]

My Little Sister's Farm :

All I can say is genetics is a lot harder than you think. It isn't a simple math equation of 1 gene plus 1 gene equals either this or that. There are so many pairings that will control different things. There are poultry professors that can't pin point where on the dna the brown egg genes are, they've identified 13. It takes more than a google page and breeding 2 chickens together. You will have fertility and laying issues regardless of diet. You are focusing on a "male" characteristic in muscle development and will have to sacrifice the female characteristics of # of eggs and fertility to do such.

this thread is getting GREAT!!! I am learning so much!!!​

 

[CARS]

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As fast as you had me, you lost me. If I can't see it or feel it....... i'm not much help.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

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So other than plucking issues is there any difference in breeding my White Rocks to my Dark Cornish? Haven't done it yet but I am going to as soon as the roo is a little older.

 

[al6517]

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So other than plucking issues is there any difference in breeding my White Rocks to my Dark Cornish? Haven't done it yet but I am going to as soon as the roo is a little older.

First off you need to breed the Cornish to the Rocks for starters, what are your issues with plucking ????.

AL

 

[Germaine_11.20]

The pin feathers show more than they would with the White Cornish, that's all. My White Rocks have just started laying and the Dark Cornish are 15 weeks old and getting big. I am getting excited about putting them together and seeing what results I get from the chicks.

Oh and HI AL!!!!