Ok.. so I'm not buying the whole.... Updated with pics...breeding hens

[Germaine_11.20]

Thank you! I think they are going to be alot of fun and very interesting to see what happens.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Those with rocks look like they have a bit of weight on them... especially that hen! Are you planning to breed that hen to to your DC rooster. I'm no genetic expert but I think the white will be dominate resulting in all chicks having a white plumage.... which would be good for processing reasons.

Are you breeding them yet?

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Cornish x breeding stock.... Look at the females backs in the first picture compared to the buckeye hen. Second picture is buckeye rooster.... I think I have a good start, can't wait until I see the offspring.

 

[willheveland]

Quote:
This is true... and this is probably why the industry hasn't done what we are doing. Like stated before when you make breed you have to line breed to get the traits you want losing that hybrid vigor. I think when the industry crosses these lines for every breeding guarantees that vigor and high performance.

I think though for most people those high standards are not needed. If you can get a chicken that weighs 3.5 - 5 lbs in 8 weeks that is basically all anyone would really need.

With Barred rocks coming from Black Javas and Dominiques/ Dark Cornish coming from Old English (fighting) games and Aseels/ Delawares coming from Barred Rock and New Hampshires. Does anyone know how long this took? Since the Cornish x has been around for about 50 years is this really a short period of time or not? Will

ps-Jeff, I didn't know you had buck-eyes, but I often wondered why a guy from Ohio wouldn't. I guess I know now.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Yep, they are easy to sell in Ohio... a lot of history with them.

I think with the other standard breeds your talking about are made up in about 4-10 generations which would be 3-8 years or so. The hard part would be proving that they breed true time and time again.

The cornish x's have been around almost 60 years now and they just keep getting better. They have the genetics down know, because of the amount of technology that goes into them. If they had the same technology 40 years ago, these birds wouldn't have taken so long to develop to where they are today.

Other breeds are fairly simple, changing color of eggs, skin, feathers is relatively simple. But body confirmation is very hard to change and it take years and many generations to do it. Along with a lot of cross breeding so you get the benefits of the Hybrid Vigor.... I think a lot breeds are smaller than the standard today because of lack of genetic diversity. Many people argue that the cornish are so dependent on one strain of genetics, when in fact there are three cross of genes... to make up that single product (the broiler we know today). I think these crosses are key to locking in that hybrid vigor, also to, it makes it that much harder to reproduce the end product. The more lines you have in that one product.... the more mixed results you will have if you try to breed them.

 

[TimG]

Recently I've been wondering whether hybrid vigor isn't really the absence of inbreeding induced non-vigor.

 

[EGGTASKTIC]

Jeff

Super looking stock.
I really like the hen in the last pics-- she looks huge.

Hope to see some pics of the offspring.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
You know what... probably.

 

[Htul]

Great post - I have working my way through this with interest.

I've had an interest in some of the issues that have been discussed in this for some time but have found it a bit of a challenge trying to find info about the growth rate potential of the dam lines (which I would consider to be the rate limiting step in the whole equation in terms of growth rate, 'meatiness' etc).

It is therefore with great interest that I came across the following observation:

Quote:
which, I guess, surprises me somewhat (partly that such stock was available for purchase in the first instance! - here in Australia, the broiler companies would be over zealously guarding them to allow this to happen). It would be quite interesting if the growth rate of such stock were compared to that of the final terminal cross.

I had always been under the impression that, due to the much stronger focus on selection for reproductive traits in the female lines, that the growth potential would be significantly lower in these lines (since there is a negative correlation between growth rate and reproductive capacity) - yes, I agree that it would still likely be far superior to the vast majority of DP stock generally available, but still quite inferior to the end product.

However, in reading this through more carefully- it has struck me that the line that is being talked about (in this observarion) is the sire line of the female parental strains. In which case, this would be more heavily selected for growth rate than the dam line of the female parental strain , as the resultant progeny - (ie. the dam to the terminal broiler ) would be expected to have heterosis for egg production. In which case it is really the dam line of the femaler parental strain that is likely to be the rate limiting step with the poorest growth performance (for which I have, to date, been unable to find any growth rate data).

So I would perhaps question as to how similar the four parental strains really are - and the more genetically dissimilar they are, the greater the difficulty in recovering something resembling the final terminal broiler in subsequent generations.

Cheers,
Htul

 

[My Little Sister's Farm]

Quote:
I too want a sustainable meat bird to grow.

As for breeding brown to brown and always getting brown -- there is an anti-pigment gene bred into many commercial egg laying flocks that ensures eggs don't have any pigment at all. No eggs are bleached for commericial uses to effect color - they are all naturally that bright. That gene was found with millions of dollars in breeding and research, as will every improvement in the broiler side of the industry. I commend anyone who takes this type of program on and wish them all the luck in the world. I for one don't have millions of dollars and hundreds and thousands of breeding birds nor the years of time it will take to create a strain that is both sustainable and profitable. I hope some day someone has these chicks available for me to purchase on here as I would switch in a heart beat. As for now, I will continue to raise cornish x from a local hatchery and raise them on organic feeds and ranging.