Ok to kill Bald Eagles

[punk-a-doodle]

That one? Ceremonial boats and harpoons were used for that. I personally have no issue with the motorized and armed secondary boat used for a quicker death once the ceremonial harpooning was fulfilled. I hope said rifle was required personally. From what I hear, a veterinarian was required to oversee the process.

When whale numbers are too small to support it, even ceremonial hunting shouldn't, and as I understand, isn't, permitted. It is commercial hunting that caused the decline however, so no...probably not handing out permits for that any time soon.

Granted, much of our current, legal fishing is not sustainable. The rate of biodiversity loss for the past few decades has been something to behold.


Quote: That's great that you do not, however many do. Fur trapping is still very much a part of culture in certain areas, and is supported by law in some areas. I am told by a friend that it was rather a big deal where he grew up and lived in Alaska.

 

[Cetawin]

How 'bout we take all the different ethnic and religious people, find a law that interferes with what we want and seek a permit to flip it. We are all Americans and the law governs all, no matter who was here first. Once again a case of not equal rights but special rights. This is what causes divisions among a nation of people. MY RIGHTS AND HERITAGE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUS. Gimme a break.

Whoa now back up. I have been watching this thread and now am going to speak my piece...

First and foremost, let's be honest right off the bat. This country expects everyone to bend to religious sensitivity yet when it comes to the beliefs and traditions of my people (or other tribes) everyone has a fit. Our soldiers can be sent to war, die and fight in a desert somewhere BUT they cannot take a bible, cross, star of david or etcetera with them BUT they must learn the proper way to handle a Koran. Do not preach what you do not know and do not have correct fact for.

Our religious practices were around long before my ancestors decided to be stupid and help the pilgrims, keep them from dying and show them how to live off of this land that eventually was repaid by the slaughter of our people, lies, disease and treaties that meant absolutely nothing. Our beliefs and traditions will still be here long after you and I are gone. It is not about special rights or the need to file lawsuits in order to perform our religious ceremonies would not be necessary now would it? Do indians harrass the Christians who play with poisonous snakes in church? No Does anyone else? No But let an indian try to uphold their traditions and the white man and tree huggers start yelling. So you gimme a break.

As for the other topics and posts:

On the topic of the whale hunts...the choice of power boats and rifles were decreed by the white man's law not the Indians because the "traditional" method and way was thought to be too cruel and not efficient and fast enough to suit the whiners. So blame that one on the white man not the native. Funny how it was an OLD whale they said the indians could kill and funny how white men liined up just to taste it prepared. LOL But they were quick to complain and try to stop it.

As to the right of the Wind River people to take the Eagle(s). Note that they may take up to two...why two? Because Indians know they mate for life and therefore should a pair be found without young to care for or a young pair without a nest yet, the pair will be taken. That is more honorable than the poachers do everytime they kill an eagle. Secondly, the entire bird will be prepared and honored according to tradition in preparation for the Sundance (I am assuming that is the ceremony because of the time of year being discussed). If you are not an indian, there is no need for an explanation to you on what that ceremony is about or what it entails or anything else aside from the fact it is a religious ceremony. Why should we need to explain it?

But again, the use of a rifle is mandated by the white man NOT the indian. The old ones would prefer to do it the old way...by use of an eagle catcher. One man would capture and kill the pair BY HAND which could take weeks or longer, barring the hope that he was not killed or maimed in the process. So try not to get all up in arms towards the Indian and OUR rights when, if left alone, we would do just fine.

Trust me...this is a topic best left off of BYC because it will open a can of worms that is best left in the Courtroom. But come with facts not theory. My PM is open if you want to debate fact and theory but best pack dinner and breakfast because it could go on forever because you see the facts are numerous sadly the myths are fewer, just reach for and read any history book printed in this Country and used in schools for all the myths.

 

[RHRanch]

X2 Cetawin - People are all for religious freedom of their own religion (the dominant ones) but reject the rights of others to worship as they have for thousands of years. Native Americans have had the right to possess and use Eagle feathers, raptor feathers already. Now they can kill one pair for one of the most important ceremonies they have since the supply is short. We have imposed our ideologies, lifestyle and beliefs on them, allowing them to continue their cultural heritage and traditions is the least our society can do.

By the way, individuals can obtain federal permits to kill a particularly annoying hawk/raptor if it is a chronic problem. So permits to kill raptor has been done before (rarely) for non-religious purposes. Where is all the outrage about that?

 

[chickened]

Resurrecting past traditions has to have a stopping point. Tossing virgins into volcanoes would be argued as traditional and under the same premise we would be suspending a law to allow a cultural practice which would seem on the exterior to violate equal access under the law. Indians were famous for raiding nearby villages for women how would that go over today? maybe nullify kidnapping get a permit and let them have at it? These things always have the potential to setting precedents.

I really think the reason the government has allowed this is as in the past some battles are not worth fighting. Whatever happen to the Indians national sovereignty? do they really need permission? especially on reservation land.

I am beginning to think this is all to prove a point at the expense of what 2 eagles a year?

 

[chickened]

There is a molting site in the Ozarks where they could get all the feathers they wanted and catch them easily. This link helps explain the process. I seen the story on OPB a few years ago and there is a site in the eastern U.S. where they take a few people at a time up to a molting site to see the behavior of eagles molting and the eagles that cae for them by bringing them food. Wish I could find the link.

http://eaglez4worth.tripod.com/id89.html

Whoa now back up. I have been watching this thread and now am going to speak my piece...

First and foremost, let's be honest right off the bat. This country expects everyone to bend to religious sensitivity yet when it comes to the beliefs and traditions of my people (or other tribes) everyone has a fit. Our soldiers can be sent to war, die and fight in a desert somewhere BUT they cannot take a bible, cross, star of david or etcetera with them BUT they must learn the proper way to handle a Koran. Do not preach what you do not know and do not have correct fact for.

Our religious practices were around long before my ancestors decided to be stupid and help the pilgrims, keep them from dying and show them how to live off of this land that eventually was repaid by the slaughter of our people, lies, disease and treaties that meant absolutely nothing. Our beliefs and traditions will still be here long after you and I are gone. It is not about special rights or the need to file lawsuits in order to perform our religious ceremonies would not be necessary now would it? Do indians harrass the Christians who play with poisonous snakes in church? No Does anyone else? No But let an indian try to uphold their traditions and the white man and tree huggers start yelling. So you gimme a break.

As for the other topics and posts:

On the topic of the whale hunts...the choice of power boats and rifles were decreed by the white man's law not the Indians because the "traditional" method and way was thought to be too cruel and not efficient and fast enough to suit the whiners. So blame that one on the white man not the native. Funny how it was an OLD whale they said the indians could kill and funny how white men liined up just to taste it prepared. LOL But they were quick to complain and try to stop it.

As to the right of the Wind River people to take the Eagle(s). Note that they may take up to two...why two? Because Indians know they mate for life and therefore should a pair be found without young to care for or a young pair without a nest yet, the pair will be taken. That is more honorable than the poachers do everytime they kill an eagle. Secondly, the entire bird will be prepared and honored according to tradition in preparation for the Sundance (I am assuming that is the ceremony because of the time of year being discussed). If you are not an indian, there is no need for an explanation to you on what that ceremony is about or what it entails or anything else aside from the fact it is a religious ceremony. Why should we need to explain it?

But again, the use of a rifle is mandated by the white man NOT the indian. The old ones would prefer to do it the old way...by use of an eagle catcher. One man would capture and kill the pair BY HAND which could take weeks or longer, barring the hope that he was not killed or maimed in the process. So try not to get all up in arms towards the Indian and OUR rights when, if left alone, we would do just fine.

Trust me...this is a topic best left off of BYC because it will open a can of worms that is best left in the Courtroom. But come with facts not theory. My PM is open if you want to debate fact and theory but best pack dinner and breakfast because it could go on forever because you see the facts are numerous sadly the myths are fewer, just reach for and read any history book printed in this Country and used in schools for all the myths.

 

[Capvin]

There is a molting site in the Ozarks where they could get all the feathers they wanted and catch them easily. This link helps explain the process. I seen the story on OPB a few years ago and there is a site in the eastern U.S. where they take a few people at a time up to a molting site to see the behavior of eagles molting and the eagles that cae for them by bringing them food. Wish I could find the link.

http://eaglez4worth.tripod.com/id89.html

Unfortunately I have been made well aware of your predilcition to denegrate many races and people, and now you have a chance to show how you feel about Indians because they sought a legal permit to kill two eagles for a very legitimate and religious purpose. Your suggestion is, as usual, suitable for the David Duke show but you should know that for most of their needs regarding protected birds the Indians do go to a repository where the remains and the feathers of the dead birds are kept for just such a purpose. For this particular religious purpose the requirement calls for fresh feathers from the whole bird. The Indians feel that most of the Christian ways and beliefs are ridiculous but it would be extremely rare for any indian of any tribe to be so bigoted as to attempt to prevent them from practicing their religion. I would be ashamed to make some of the statements that I have read here.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Quote: That would clearly violate the rights of other human beings, and is not an acceptable comparison.


I used to work with eagles at an aviary. The site you linked....leaves a lot to be desired in the facts department.
...Can't....hold head up.
While birds such as anhingas and geese may lose flight during molts, raptors tend to have symetrical and patchy molts to retain blanaced flight. This is true of eagles.
http://www.globalraptors.org/grin/researchers/uploads/155/bloomclarkageingges.pdf
Not that I believe for a second that you actually meant it to be a 'solution' to the feather harvesting (Feathers kept from molted birds already go to places such as tribes and museums. Falconers may also use them: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-30-570 ), but rather a link for some other tangent.

 

[ChicknThief]

X2!!!!

Unfortunately I have been made well aware of your predilcition to denegrate many races and people, and now you have a chance to show how you feel about Indians because they sought a legal permit to kill two eagles for a very legitimate and religious purpose. Your suggestion is, as usual, suitable for the David Duke show but you should know that for most of their needs regarding protected birds the Indians do go to a repository where the remains and the feathers of the dead birds are kept for just such a purpose. For this particular religious purpose the requirement calls for fresh feathers from the whole bird. The Indians feel that most of the Christian ways and beliefs are ridiculous but it would be extremely rare for any indian of any tribe to be so bigoted as to attempt to prevent them from practicing their religion. I would be ashamed to make some of the statements that I have read here.

 

[ChickenLeg]

because it's part of their heritage... those eagles will die with more honor and reverence then most of us hold for our chicken when we haul them to the processors. And certainly more so than the eagles killed any given day by the giant wind turbines that are also going to be installed.

I think we sometimes forget WE invaded THEIR country. Besides, do we not sacrifice animals to celebrate our holidays? Why is it any different for them to use an animal in theirs?

At some point, if the younger kids aren't interested, and the old timers die out, it will stop like a passing phase... which I think is very unfortunate.

WE did not invade their country, men invaded this country long ago. Thats like saying WE owned slaves, or WE founded America. We have just as much as a right to be here as they do. And I didnt read the article because I dont care to, but I would also like to add Bald Eagles are endangered, thats reason enough not to kill them. No matter who you are.

 

[Matthew3590]

WE did not invade their country, men invaded this country long ago. Thats like saying WE owned slaves, or WE founded America. We have just as much as a right to be here as they do. And I didnt read the article because I dont care to, but I would also like to add Bald Eagles are endangered, thats reason enough not to kill them. No matter who you are.

Bald eagles were taken off the endangered list in 2007. I personally think it would be really cool to have a bald eagle in my house. (from a taxidermist.)