***OKIES in the BYC III ***

[lonnyandrinda]

Does anyone know the genetic makeup of Isbar eggs? I mean, obviously they are green. But would a breeding with a Marans guarantee an Olive Egger? While waiting for my Isbar boy, I put my little Isbar lady in with El Jefe (Blue Copper Marans). Three weeks later, I'm setting her eggs. Just curious what she'll throw as an egg gene. I set a few of hers while she was in general pop...actually think my very young cochin mated with her...lighter green eggs?

My Orpingtons and Barnevelders need to pick up on their laying. I'm clearly resorting to setting whatever I have "just to see."

Isbars carry double blue OO and some combination of brown to get to green. There is only one gene for blue, but at least 15 different brown egg genes. There are a few very dark ones that can only be inherited one or the other, and several modifier browns that can "stack up" to make the very dark Marans eggs. When you cross an Isbar to a Marans you should get a very nice deep olive egger. Crossed with the cochin yes you should get a green very similar but possibly lighter than her mother. Depends on which brown egg genes she inherits.

 

[smith76]

Anyone have a sebright hen they would be interested in trading or selling. Silver or gold, it doesn't matter. Would even trade a couple pumpkin hulsey or green leg hatch chick's for the hen.

 

[cathiesue]

Isbars carry double blue OO and some combination of brown to get to green. There is only one gene for blue, but at least 15 different brown egg genes. There are a few very dark ones that can only be inherited one or the other, and several modifier browns that can "stack up" to make the very dark Marans eggs. When you cross an Isbar to a Marans you should get a very nice deep olive egger. Crossed with the cochin yes you should get a green very similar but possibly lighter than her mother. Depends on which brown egg genes she inherits.

Um...what she said.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Hahaha... let me try again. Don't want to fly above the head of anyone wanting to follow along. If you want to know a little more about how the blue egg gene works, it is actually a retrovirus. http://phys.org/news/2013-08-unscrambling-genetics-chicken-blue-egg.html

Blue egg gene is denoted by O. A chicken breed that lays blue eggs has two copies of the blue allelle, so they are OO. A chicken breed that lays white or brown eggs lacks this allelle, denoted by lowercase oo. In genetics a capital signifies a dominant gene, and a lower case signifies a recessive gene. OO and Oo give the SAME color of blue eggs, there are other modifiers that we don't understand that affect the intensity of the color but blue is blue is blue.

So take your Isbar. Simple, both parents are OO. Using a Mendelian genetics chart, we see 100% of the offspring get OO blue egg genes. She just has added brown genes, too.

Mom:
O O
Dad: O OO OO
O OO OO



When you cross her to a Marans, you get this:

Mom:
O O
Dad: o Oo Oo
o Oo Oo

Again, 100% of the offspring get at least one dominant blue O and will have blue egg genes. You are adding the Isbar brown to the darker Marans brown, so you get olive eggs from these chicks 100% of the time. This first generation cross is called F1.

Isbar crossed with Cochin would be the same- except you don't get the darker Marans eggs, just regular brown. They may or may not add up to be darker than the mom's eggs, it depends on which genes.

Now if you cross one of THESE babies to something else, say back to the Marans rooster to work on an even darker olive, you get this:

Mom:
O o
Dad: o Oo oo
o Oo oo

You get 50% very dark olive layers (they get the Marans brown AND the blue O), and 50% dark brown layers (although probably not as dark as a Marans).

If you want to create an OLIVE EGGER flock, you can cross these first generation (F1) chicks to each other, like this:

Mom:
O o
Dad: O OO Oo
o Oo oo

In this second generation, called F2, you get 75% olive eggers, 25% brown layers. To get to the OLIVE EGGER flock, you need to test breed to identify the 25% OO carriers and include only them for breeding. It's a long process for sure.

One caveat that makes Ameraucanas special- the blue egg gene is located VERY close to the pea comb gene, which is another dominant gene. SO close in fact that they are passed on together 99% of the time. So when you make EEs, almost every chick gets blue egg gene. If it has a pea comb, it has a blue egg gene except that 1 in 100 time. This will NOT be the case for straight comb blue/green layer breeds like Cream Legbar and Isbar, they will follow these mendelian charts as I've laid out.

 

[HeyBigRhondaq]

Hahaha... let me try again.  Don't want to fly above the head of anyone wanting to follow along.  If you want to know a little more about how the blue egg gene works, it is actually a retrovirus.  http://phys.org/news/2013-08-unscrambling-genetics-chicken-blue-egg.html

Blue egg gene is denoted by O.  A chicken breed that lays blue eggs has two copies of the blue allelle, so they are OO.  A chicken breed that lays white or brown eggs lacks this allelle, denoted by lowercase oo.  In genetics a capital signifies a dominant gene, and a lower case signifies a recessive gene.  OO and Oo give the SAME color of blue eggs, there are other modifiers that we don't understand that affect the intensity of the color but blue is blue is blue.

So take your Isbar.  Simple, both parents are OO.  Using a Mendelian genetics chart, we see 100% of the offspring get OO blue egg genes.  She just has added brown genes, too.

                      Mom:
                    O       O
Dad: O        OO     OO
        O        OO     OO



When you cross her to a Marans, you get this:

                      Mom:
                    O       O
Dad: o         Oo     Oo
        o         Oo     Oo

Again, 100% of the offspring get at least one dominant blue O and will have blue egg genes.  You are adding the Isbar brown to the darker Marans brown, so you get olive eggs from these chicks 100% of the time.  This first generation cross is called F1.

Isbar crossed with Cochin would be the same- except you don't get the darker Marans eggs, just regular brown.  They may or may not add up to be darker than the mom's eggs, it depends on which genes.

Now if you cross one of THESE babies to something else, say back to the Marans rooster to work on an even darker olive, you get this:

                      Mom:
                    O       o
Dad: o         Oo      oo
        o         Oo      oo

You get 50% very dark olive layers (they get the Marans brown AND the blue O), and 50% dark brown layers (although probably not as dark as a Marans).

If you want to create an OLIVE EGGER flock, you can cross these first generation (F1) chicks to each other, like this:

                      Mom:
                    O       o
Dad: O         OO      Oo
         o         Oo      oo

In this second generation, called F2, you get 75% olive eggers, 25% brown layers.  To get to the OLIVE EGGER flock, you need to test breed to identify the 25% OO carriers and include only them for breeding.  It's a long process for sure.

One caveat that makes Ameraucanas special- the blue egg gene is located VERY close to the pea comb gene, which is another dominant gene.  SO close in fact that they are passed on together 99% of the time.  So when you make EEs, almost every chick gets blue egg gene.  If it has a pea comb, it has a blue egg gene except that 1 in 100 time.  This will NOT be the case for straight comb blue/green layer breeds like Cream Legbar and Isbar, they will follow these mendelian charts as I've laid out.

Lol-impressed that you typed that out! I knew all of it except whether or not Isbar carried OO. I figured they MUST, but couldn't find anything to verify. I'm just doing this round for fun. I'm not a huge fan of Ameraucanas (don't know why), so if I try for a flock, it will be that long process.

I do have a Splash OE (peacomb) rooster available from my MaransXEE (looks like a BBS Ameraucana). He's pretty, but he's also about to be dinner if someone doesn't want to throw $15 at me. Of course, I guess I could throw him in with an eventual hen from MaransXIsbar and get even more genes with which to play.

 

[NanaKat]

  @millbrookfarm
 glad to have you share in the Okie thread.

X 2. Welcome!

Hey all it's been a long time! Hope all my Okie friends are well. I'm still in Tennessee. Although I will be traveling back to visit sick folks this week . Keep your fingers crossed that the roads are clear. It's supposed to snow six inches the day after we leave here! I got a good deal on Craigslist over the weekend. Got two Rhode island and tree production red point of lay he's for free! They join my trio of mixed bantams. The bantams are really neat. Their body and feathering look like phenoix but they are millefleurs colored! Am looking forward to the trip. Will be picking up some roller pigeons in Pocola on the way.nice to be back on here although I don t know very many. But of course I am tickled that Nanakat and Robin are still here. And Miss Betsy too.

Good to see you posting again! I got your seeds! Wow nice variety. I have seeds ready to send you too. Congrats on the birds. Hope your journey is a safe one and your family health quickly improves.

 

[Poco Pollo]

Hey all it's been a long time! Hope all my Okie friends are well. I'm still in Tennessee. Although I will be traveling back to visit sick folks this week . Keep your fingers crossed that the roads are clear. It's supposed to snow six inches the day after we leave here! I got a good deal on Craigslist over the weekend. Got two Rhode island and tree production red point of lay he's for free! They join my trio of mixed bantams. The bantams are really neat. Their body and feathering look like phenoix but they are millefleurs colored! Am looking forward to the trip. Will be picking up some roller pigeons in Pocola on the way.nice to be back on here although I don t know very many. But of course I am tickled that Nanakat and Robin are still here. And Miss Betsy too.

Watch out for bad drivers. Too many people forget that they can't start or stop on icy roads.

Congrats on your new birds. Share some pictures with us when you get a chance : )

 

[Kyzmette]

Well it's a good day for me to be at home, spending time with Bumpers. She's still not laid an egg, but I can't feel an egg inside her, in spite of how firm her belly is. She still doesn't act distressed, but she's not eating or drinking at all, and hasn't been for days. I feel like I'm waiting out some terrible countdown. In the meantime I've been giving her water by syringe, and putting egg and crumble paste in her beak so she has to eat it. She's had a couple of tiny poops since I've been feeding her, so I know she's digesting, and while they're fairly watery, that seems normal, all things considered. I'm lost as to what it could be.

After I feed and water her we sit by the fire, her head nestled in the crook of my arm, and rock for a while. She loves being next to the fire, and she'll close her eyes and sleep like that.

 

[Kassaundra]

I'm sorry she still isn't feeling any better.

 

[NanaKat]

Well it's a good day for me to be at home, spending time with Bumpers. She's still not laid an egg, but I can't feel an egg inside her, in spite of how firm her belly is. She still doesn't act distressed, but she's not eating or drinking at all, and hasn't been for days. I feel like I'm waiting out some terrible countdown. In the meantime I've been giving her water by syringe, and putting egg and crumble paste in her beak so she has to eat it. She's had a couple of tiny poops since I've been feeding her, so I know she's digesting, and while they're fairly watery, that seems normal, all things considered. I'm lost as to what it could be.

After I feed and water her we sit by the fire, her head nestled in the crook of my arm, and rock for a while. She loves being next to the fire, and she'll close her eyes and sleep like that.

Sorry to hear Bumpers isn't better even with the tender loving care she is getting.
I'm thinking it may still be something with the reproductive system since she is processing the food you are giving her. I'm hoping that she pulls thru this. I know you will continue to give her your best attention.
Several years ago one of my special LF Delaware hens had similar symptoms. She was active up til the last few days...sadly her issue was benign tumors in the reproductive system.

It is so bitterly cold outside. I moved a few of the outside birds inside for this spell. I cleaned cages today and prepped for moving all the brooder chicks to the barn. I had 13 of 23 eggs hatch yesterday and just moved 24 to the hatcher due to hatch on the 7th. Making room by shifting chicks around was necessary.
Little Joe is growing by leaps and bounds. While he gets to graze in the garden on early green grasses, he isn't eatting as much hay or creep feed as I would like. So this morning after his bottle bucket, I hand fed him creep and moved in a bale of alfalfa. He like the alfalfa and ate about a half cup of creep. He loves to be outside running around the garden so it will be nice to get him out again after this cold spell. We had our first spring calf yesterday. Both mom and calf are doing great.