Old and Rare Breeds

Yes, I know that Walt. Didn't mean to sound as if I was throwing stones at the APA. Actually, it's the ALBC I was aiming at. They are the ones that made the comment about birds in the mid-20th century APA Standard; which in effect (or affect... never did get that right) makes the mid-20th APA Standard the arbitrator of what is 'heritage.'

I no where stated the APA had done such a thing. Nor did I intend to imply such. Apologize if I did.
 
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Yes, I know that Walt. Didn't mean to sound as if I was throwing stones at the APA. Actually, it's the ALBC I was aiming at. They are the ones that made the comment about birds in the mid-20th century APA Standard; "which in effect" (or affect... never did get that right) makes the mid-20th APA Standard the arbitrator of what is 'heritage.'

I know where stated the APA had done such a thing. Nor did I intend to imply such. Apologize if I did.
That is correct.

I'm getting Dorkings this year - woohoo!
 
Yes, I know that Walt. Didn't mean to sound as if I was throwing stones at the APA. Actually, it's the ALBC I was aiming at. They are the ones that made the comment about birds in the mid-20th century APA Standard; which in effect (or affect... never did get that right) makes the mid-20th APA Standard the arbitrator of what is 'heritage.'

I no where stated the APA had done such a thing. Nor did I intend to imply such. Apologize if I did.

I know that you know the real story, but you know how people on line don't always get it right when they read something. I will let you know how the Ko meet goes this weekend. It should be a slam dunk. They have 127 Ko's entered and most will be shown by real breeders.
Carl had best AOSB at Springfield with a black Malay.

Walt
 
I'm sure it will Walt. Again, I apologize. You are absolutely correct. Those words could easily have been read as a slam against our organization: the APA. Thanks for making it clear.
Not surprised at that Black Malay. I hope y'all have a wonderful weekend.

Say hello and wish everyone well for me.
 
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OSU,
You have raised an excellent question. Please forgive me if I sound like I'm preaching to the choir, as I am well aware that your knowledge of fowl far exceeds my own.

Let's look at the facts:
1. We know that the Med. breeds like the Leghorn are degenerate Gamefowl (dunghills) that were then bred and selected along egg laying lines.
2. Probably the oldest of Med. breeds is the White-face Black Spanish.
3. The Leghorn became standardized in Britain in the mid-19th century; though it is difficult to say how much it was actually changed, improved yes, changed debatable.

As far as I'm aware that Columela did not mention a breed matching the Leghorn; that is not to say they weren't there. If he did then that settles the discussion as far as I'm concerned. What is needed with any breed is some sort of historical documentation.

In this case, the Leghorn, I would say it was a Landrace that became standardized in the mid-19th century. Thus, it is a Modern fowl with Ancient roots. On the other hand, I would definitely classify the White Faced Black Spanish as an Ancient breed. Perhaps even the root of the Med. tree.
I knew that the Mediterranean breeds were decedents of games, just wasn't sure how well documented their history was. I figured that you had access to more historical documents that might shed light on their heritage. I am guessing that the Minorcas were derived from the Spanish by selecting for a red face over the white face, which would be why they were originally Red Faced Black Spanish. This is entirely speculation, but would the Blue Andalusians possibly be the outcome of crossing black and White Minorcas? or were they purely a cross between a black and white strain of games?

Here are a couple pictures of my Minorcas


 
I have been trying to gather more historical information on the Mediterraneans myself. In particular, the Spanish breeds. I am having some success, but am also finding conflicting information. Any tips on good sources would be appreciated.
 
Some of the best information would be the old books by Wright. Most everyone from the 1800s just quoted Wright anyway (with no credit given of course).

I've read in several different sources where the early Spanish explorers brought the White Faced Black Spanish to the Americas. If that is the case then that would make them the earliest non-Game breed to cross the muddy pond.
 
Some of the best information would be the old books by Wright. Most everyone from the 1800s just quoted Wright anyway (with no credit given of course).

I've read in several different sources where the early Spanish explorers brought the White Faced Black Spanish to the Americas. If that is the case then that would make them the earliest non-Game breed to cross the muddy pond.

Would that be at the Spanish settlements in Florida and Louisiana? Were they taken to Mexico and Southern California?
 

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