Old and Rare Breeds

[buffalogal]

Quote:
Both are very pretty birds, but they are different species, and are not domesticated.

 

[Pyncheon guy]

I know that....

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
Are you sure?

The last time I looked, there were there are at least a dozen breeds of Turkeys. They're all descended from one species (like all chickens descended from JungleFowl) but there are different breeds. There is no breed" of Guinea fowl; they are a species that people have recently begun breeding in different colors, but they are otherwise unchanged from the original wild bird that's still running around dodging hyenas and lions in Africa.

EX: a white wolf is a color variety that is different that the regular agouti sable color most wolves have, but it is still only a wolf.
OTOH, a white Maltese is a breed of dog. (*)
In the same way, a white Guinea is a color variety, (but still only a Guinea), but a white Silkie is a breed of chicken.


(*) some would say the Maltese is still a "wolf', but that's a debate for another thread. LOL

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
Sorry about that; the thread was moving faster than I could type.

Saladin, does the Wolf/Maltese example help explain about why Guineas are not a breed?

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Are you sure?

The last time I looked, there were there are at least a dozen breeds of Turkeys. They're all descended from one species (like all chickens descended from JungleFowl) but there are different breeds. There is no breed" of Guinea fowl; they are a species that people have recently begun breeding in different colors, but they are otherwise unchanged from the original wild bird that's still running around dodging hyenas and lions in Africa.

EX: a white wolf is a color variety that is different that the regular agouti sable color most wolves have, but it is still only a wolf.
OTOH, a white Maltese is a breed of dog. (*)
In the same way, a white Guinea is a color variety, (but still only a Guinea), but a white Silkie is a breed of chicken.


(*) some would say the Maltese is still a "wolf', but that's a debate for another thread. LOL

For those that care: The APA recognizes only one breed of Turkey, but several varieties. They also recognize Guinea fowl as a breed and recognize three colors. Pearl, lavender and white.

Walt

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Are you sure?

The last time I looked, there were there are at least a dozen breeds of Turkeys. They're all descended from one species (like all chickens descended from JungleFowl) but there are different breeds. There is no breed" of Guinea fowl; they are a species that people have recently begun breeding in different colors, but they are otherwise unchanged from the original wild bird that's still running around dodging hyenas and lions in Africa.

EX: a white wolf is a color variety that is different that the regular agouti sable color most wolves have, but it is still only a wolf.
OTOH, a white Maltese is a breed of dog. (*)
In the same way, a white Guinea is a color variety, (but still only a Guinea), but a white Silkie is a breed of chicken.


(*) some would say the Maltese is still a "wolf', but that's a debate for another thread. LOL

Are you sure?

The last time I looked, there were there are at least a dozen breeds of Turkeys

Bronze Turkey,
Narragansett Turkey
White Holland Turkey
Black Spanish Turkey (Black Norfolk Turkey)
Blue Slate Turkey (Self Blue)
Bourbon Red Turkey
Beltsville Small White Turkey
Royal Palm Turkey
Auburn,
Broad Breasted White,
Broad Breasted Bronze,
Buff (or Jersey Buff)
Chocolate,
Black Winged Bronze,
Blue Palm,
Blue Red Bronze,
Calico,
Chocolate Palm,
Chocolate Slate,
Golden Narragansett,
Golden Phoenix,
Lilac,
Mottled Black,
Mottled Chocolate,
Nebraskan,
Oregon Gray,
Pencilled Palm,
Pencilled Red Palm,
Red Bronze,
Red Palm,
Red Phoenix,
Red Slate,
Regal Red,
Royal Palm,
Silver Auburn,
Silver Dapple
Sweetgrass,
Tiger Bronze,
White Holland,

Are all varieties.

Chris​

 

[NeilV]

I'm thinking that the right historian could write a book on this theme that would tie world history (from early domestication of animals to right now) in terms of chickens. If you think about it, you could tie in from (1) the development of agriculture; (2) to the various empires and migrations; (3) to the development of colonialism and the world becoming smaller; (4) to the development of modern society where people have enough spare time/money to raise chickens just for beauty's sake; (5) to the development of industrial agriculture where all the various breeds have been marginalized.

There is a guy named Mark Kurlansky or something like that who has written similar books on topics like codfish and salt that sound boring but are not who needs to write this book.

Also, the "ancient" era is generally thought to end at about 500 AD, FWIW (which probably isn't much).

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
I understand that chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) are a subspecies of the Junglefowl (Gallus).
I also know that the chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) is in the same order (Galliformes) as turkey, grouse, quail, ptarmigan, partridge, pheasant, and the Cracidae.

Chris

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Are you sure?

The last time I looked, there were there are at least a dozen breeds of Turkeys. They're all descended from one species (like all chickens descended from JungleFowl) but there are different breeds. There is no breed" of Guinea fowl; they are a species that people have recently begun breeding in different colors, but they are otherwise unchanged from the original wild bird that's still running around dodging hyenas and lions in Africa.

EX: a white wolf is a color variety that is different that the regular agouti sable color most wolves have, but it is still only a wolf.
OTOH, a white Maltese is a breed of dog. (*)
In the same way, a white Guinea is a color variety, (but still only a Guinea), but a white Silkie is a breed of chicken.


(*) some would say the Maltese is still a "wolf', but that's a debate for another thread. LOL

For those that care: The APA recognizes only one breed of Turkey, but several varieties. They also recognize Guinea fowl as a breed and recognize three colors. Pearl, lavender and white.

Walt

Thanks Walt,

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

buffalogal wrote:

They're all descended from one species (like all chickens descended from JungleFowl) but there are different breeds

"A breed is a group of domestic animals, termed such by common consent of the breeders, ... a term which arose among breeders of livestock, created one might say, for their own use, and no one is warranted in assigning to this word a scientific definition and in calling the breeders wrong when they deviate from the formulated definition. It is their word and the breeders common usage is what we must accept as the correct definition." Dr. Jay L. Lush

Its interesting how some are breeds and some are varieties.​