One chick died, discovered second sick chick

[Judy]

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Chicks at that age will preen and peck quite a bit; just normal grooming. Not that they couldn't have lice/mites, but preening is really no indication that they do. They will preen whether they need to or not. The one who is not preening probably is just not feeling well enough to maintain normal activities, just as you are not likely to mop your floor when you have the flu.

It is a really good sign that she is eating well!

I have read very little, if anything, on this site about fire ants biting chicks. Not that it could not happen, of course. I have mounds all over the yard, but have not had any problem with them in the coop, even with a broody, 4 chicks, and some rotten eggs under the broody. I had some in the shelter in which the broody coop is contained, sprinkled a little DE on the advancing small mounds, and saw no more in there.

Feel free to PM or post again if I can help further.

 

[threehorses]

It could actually be that what you sprayed around the yard might have effected these birds - IF they got into it. Or the rain brought that in. Rule that one out if you can.

Alternately, it could be mites. Check carefully all over the body of the bird, and the feathers and their shafts. The mites and lice are nearly microscopic so a flashlight and a white sheet sometimes help. They also like the area around the vent because of warmth and moisture so double-check there. Sometimes you'll only find evidence of them by eggs on the feathers.

As for the fireants, we used poultry dust for lice, etc, on our fire and sugar ants that were coming for our babies' food, too. You should have that handy in case you have a case of mites or lice anyway. So pick that up at the feedstore for your chicken cabinet.

What about the weight of the bird? did she feel thin to you? Sharp-keeled? She should have a good bit of meat on her chest/body. Anything less and I'd suspect she's just not getting her share of the food. That's really common, especially at that age as they start to really sort out their pecking order.

We had to seperate ours into two groups because I had some more gentle hens who looked fat, but weren't if you pick them up. You couldn't ever see them being bullied, but when put alone with food (like yours) they really chucked it down. Nutritional deficiencies and anemia is very quickly hard on a young bird and is one of the causes of the ataxia (inability to keep balance) that you saw.

It's good that she keeps eating - facilitate that any way you can. While you're at it, pick up all the birds and examine them since you've lost two. Some birds and some breeds just aren't as hardy as others in their little group.

As for the possibility of Mareks, it's more common that the bird will experience paralysis and inability to walk rather than ataxia. I would suspect a combination of heat, possibly parasites (to be ruled out), a lack of food (not because of you - just because that's how they do), and maybe a little nutritional deficiency.

What exactly are your babies eating right now? Did you switch them to grower? (If you do shortly, switch over a week - mixing the feeds.) If you smell the food, does it smell strongly of fresh ingredients? Or kind of like cardboard? Crumbles lose their nutritional efficacy rather quickly because there's a lot of surface area exposing the vitamins to air/heat/etc even in the bag. Sometimes less vigorous chicks will need a bit of a nutritional booster.

Their diet should be at least 90% of their age-appropriate complete ration. (In this case starter, starter/grower.) You might consider using the baby vitamins (without the iron) that you can get from the grocery store or Walmart. Once a week with that might make up for any odd deficiencies that they might get from their feed.

I'd recommend this highly over most of the packaged vitamin/mineral/electrolyte supplements out there. There's one that apparently is decent (dlhunicorn recommends it) and that's probably the only one I'd use unless I have a very ill bird, personally, imho. But for these guys i think the baby vitamin.

Another thing to consider is using a treat of yogurt twice this week. The living bacteria will help the birds to be more healthy, disgest their food better, resist bad bacteria better, etc. But more importantly in your case yogurt is a source of riboflavin. Deficiencies of riboflavin can result in the sort of ataxia you've described. The living bacteria also produce B vitamins, the deficiency of which also causes problems walking. So really it will do a world of good and no harm.

My rule of thumb for using yogurt is to use an amount that would be comparable to the amount we'd eat in a serving if we were their height. In other words, I might eat a cup of yogurt - a small bantam would eat a thimble's worth. It's not an exact science, but you don't want to give that same small bantam a half cup - even if she begs for it. Use plain non-flavored please.

As for preening, ours do it frequently. It depends on the bird. A few of ours I've never seen preening. The others are much more vain.

As for ants, you'd see lesions on the bird particularly around the eggs. You can also use boric acid around the coop. It's pretty safe for birds. But I'd go with the poultry dust as you can literally use it on the birds.

 

[Judy]

I'm glad threehorses chimed in here. I've done a lot of reading and have a little experience, but no small amount of what I've learned has been from her.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[posey]

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Thank you so much to taking so much time to help me.
Bless you,
Posey

 

[posey]

Thank you both so much. You have given me lots of information as well as what was given yesterday.

Last question for tonight, should I discontinue the medication in the water? Do I need to medicate for cocci and if so where do I get that and what exactly should I buy?

Thanks ladies! I wish I could hug you both right now.

I'll keep you posted
Posey

 

[posey]

Quote:
Thanks you're a Peach or Apple or Strawberry or whatever fruit you favor.
Hugs, Posey

 

[posey]

I'm screaming mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been on emailing my extension agent about my two chicks. She ask me to email photo's and a complete info sheet of all that has happened and that I have tried. I did this and she was sending it to State University for consult.

They figured it out, I hope - FIRE ANT BITES!!!

In the photo they said they noticed lessions on her feet and one near her eye on her head. I'm so new at this I don't know what I am looking at. But last night after I got off the computer I was holding her and saw the little blisters on her feet but couldn't tell if they were normal padding or not.

She is still eating like crazy but her feathers are all poofed out. I measured her and weighed her, the result: 7" long beak to tail tip and 3.3 oz in weight that's all. One of the other Brahma's is 12+" long and weighs 9.3 oz.

The University said that perhaps the ant toxin was to high for both of these little chicks. They said that the swollen face on my Silkie is typical of a respiratory illness but usually effects both sides. Their guess is she was bit many times too and couldn't eat or drink or handle the ant toxin.

I want to post a photo so that someone could please look at it and tell me what ya'll think. How do I post a photo?

Can someone post a photo of the bottom of a healthy pullets foot for me to compare too?

I have been worried about the darn fire ants. I knew that there were ants entering the coop to get the food they have scattered on the floor. The feeder is hung from the ceiling and I haven't seen ants in it, just on the floor moving around in the wood chips.

I wasn't certain if they were fire ants because another extention agent told me that wasn't the habit of fire ants. Guess it is. When I am out at the pen I can hardly stand still for long or I get bit on the feet. Stupid I know I shouldn't wear sandles to the coop, what can I say.

As usual and thoughts or suggestions are welcome.
Posey

 

[threehorses]

I'll PM you about photos. But if you've seen little blisters, I'm betting on the ants. If you're having a drought in your area, they're breaking all the rules on their habits this year because they're desperate.

You can dust the bedding with poultry dust... scrape it aside and dust the ground, then put the bedding back. Dust the bedding and stir it in with the rake/hoe. Or you can use 5% (rather than 7%) Sevin dust. But poultry dust is more safe.

Well it's a good thing you know now! I meant in my previous post to say that you'd see lesions around the *legs*, not eggs, btw.

I reread that just now and thought "eggs? what eggs?"

As for now, you just have to do supportive care. That makes a lot of sense, being from the south. We have terrible fire ants and they're quick to move and pretty strong, toxin wise.

KK sending PM now.

 

[posey]

Dear Nathalie,
Thanks for all of your help.
This little one is still eating! She's been eating all day long and finally started to drink on her own. She sat on my shoulder for about 30 minutes. It was so cute.
I look forward to hearing from you
Posey

 

[threehorses]

Sounds like someone is going to be spoiled!

That drinking on her own is a big milestone. I'm relieved! This is very good news.

By the way, we're fighting fire ants so badly here. We've had a drought and they're coming into our house. We're just now getting the first rain we've had in over 45 days. (And I feel like a dry sponge that's been put in water for the first time in years - I stood in it heheh). The ants are unbearable. They send their 'scouts' out in small numbers and those are likely what got your hens. Had the batch of them come, your babies would be dead. But they'll send out runners to find food and those runners have a bad habit of biting anything that gets in their path. it's just miserable stuff.

If you can find their mounds, you can kill their queen using boiling water. I saw one guy pour baking soda onto a mound and then vinegar so that it killed the queen (and made a nice volcanic effect). That's what you need to aim to do - find the source mound and kill that queen off. That'll cause less problems for you with her workers thereafter.