Organic Non GMO Wholesome Feed?

[chickengeorgeto]

It is my understand a product can be labeled organic with 30% GMO content.

It is USDA policy that there is no upper limit short of 100% on GMO content in non-GMO food stuffs. If in the unlikely possibility that a organic field comes back with a high GMO content the USDA only "consults" with the Organic grower and kindly suggests ways that the organic grower can lower the GM content of their non GMO produce. Whoop-De-Do

If for instance you were returning a plot of Conservation Reserve land to the production of Organic crops it is perfectly permitted for the farmer to burn the standing vegetation down with Roundup before returning the land to production. The catch is that there was no Roundup used on a CROP growing ON this field for three years BEFORE it was converted to non-GMO practices. Whoop-De-Do X Two,

 

[chickengeorgeto]

This is all well and good but please pray tell, how do Organic producers propose to limit damage from the European Corn Bore or other insect pests? The simple answer is that they make these pests an offer that they can't refuse by using man made versions of pesticides that were first isolated from plants or other natural sources. Things like Arsenic, Copper, Sulfur, or other natural pesticides like Strychnine, Roanoke, 1080, Neem Oil etc. . They also spray fruits and vegetables with Bacillus thuringiensis microbes. The same microbe that was used to produce many GM crops that make their own insecticides.

The big difference is that the USDA allows Organic Producers to spray these insecticide germs on their crops up to 15 minutes before you pop the resulting food into your mouth but the non GM crowd says that the GM crops treated with this same "pesticide" will result in a gruesome death if you eat the non-GM version of the same bacteria. And some of you still must think that it is me who is either dishonest or else misinformed!!!

 

[jak2002003]

This is all well and good but please pray tell, how do Organic producers propose to limit damage from the European Corn Bore or other insect pests? The simple answer is that they make these pests an offer that they can't refuse by using man made versions of pesticides that were first isolated from plants or other natural sources. Things like Arsenic, Copper, Sulfur, or other natural pesticides like Strychnine, Roanoke, 1080, Neem Oil etc. . They also spray fruits and vegetables with Bacillus thuringiensis microbes. The same microbe that was used to produce many GM crops that make their own insecticides.

The big difference is that the USDA allows Organic Producers to spray these insecticide germs on their crops up to 15 minutes before you pop the resulting food into your mouth but the non GM crowd says that the GM crops treated with this same "pesticide" will result in a gruesome death if you eat the non-GM version of the same bacteria. And some of you still must think that it is me who is either dishonest or else misinformed!!

You are incorrect with you information. I don't know where you read that organic farmers use arsenic, strychnine, etc. Please don't mislead people.

Anyone interested needs to read the above link.

 

[shortgrass]

This is all well and good but please pray tell, how do Organic producers propose to limit damage from the European Corn Bore or other insect pests? The simple answer is that they make these pests an offer that they can't refuse by using man made versions of pesticides that were first isolated from plants or other natural sources. Things like Arsenic, Copper, Sulfur, or other natural pesticides like Strychnine, Roanoke, 1080, Neem Oil etc. . They also spray fruits and vegetables with Bacillus thuringiensis microbes. The same microbe that was used to produce many GM crops that make their own insecticides. The big difference is that the USDA allows Organic Producers to spray these insecticide germs on their crops up to 15 minutes before you pop the resulting food into your mouth but the non GM crowd says that the GM crops treated with this same "pesticide" will result in a gruesome death if you eat the non-GM version of the same bacteria. And some of you still must think that it is me who is either dishonest or else misinformed!!!

I'm sorry, but you are VERY misinformed. First, let me say that I am an organic producer. That being said, wow... I dint know where to start. The USDA has very strict guidelines on what we can, and cannot put on the soil. Arsenic? Absolutely not. Strychnine? Way not...Round up? It'll take 3-4 years to get recertified if I use THAT.... Absolutely not. Look into BT a LITTLE more lol.. There are thousands of different species of Bacillus, all with different "jobs" (like the microbes in yogurt lol).. Bacillus thurungensis is mainly used to control larvae of borers and grubs and other species are..ih pooey this will take forever, just read links. I randomly snagged this.. http://www.disknet.com/indiana_biolab/ba00.htm The part of the BT that has been spliced for GMO? Why ya think they picked that one? It works Spinosad is another microbe commonly used. http://www.dowagro.com/turf/products/insecticides/conserve_additional.htm Also beneficial nematodes, mites and insects. Herbicide like Avenger and Scythe use naturally derived botanical oils or combinations of smotheting techniques. Here's info for THAT. http://avengerorganics.com OK, on to Neem oil. Organic, safe for beneficials, people EAT it lol... Um Neem oil is from a seed from a tree. Yet another wonderful NATURAL product that only affects the bad insects. They have to ingest the neem oil, and it causes a malfunction of hormones. The power component of Neem oil is Azadirachtin. Info on THAT... http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/azadirachtin-ext.html That's what most of organic control is, hormones and microbes; how do you think organic produce gt away with not using chemicals? Like wormers? Useless once you have a FULL understanding of the way the soil, worms,microbes, AND birds works, a HUGE peice of a very important puzzle is missing. Please do not spread misinformation. I work very hard to ensure that nature nurtures my crops, and really don't appreciate having to constantly clarify outright lies If I left anything out, PLEASE feel free to ask so I can clarify anything else To answer the OP question, yes, it is entirely possible to source organic, non GMO feed... But its super pricey. Best bet is sourcing the grains and legumes and mixing it yourself; I wouldn't have it any other way Edit, autocorrect nightmare.

 

[chickenlickin8]

Interesting reading....I just switched over to feeding my girls Organic Feed. They love it! Very pricey though, like $35.00 for a 40lb bag...YIKES! But I want Organic Eggs from my girls when they start laying in another couple of months, so the feed has to be Organic. I supplement their diet with fresh veggies and fruit scraps too.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I'm sorry, but you are VERY misinformed. First, let me say that I am an organic producer.

That being said, wow... I dint know where to start.

.....

In that case start at the beginning and lay it all on the line.

“Next, Tropical Traditions tested the USDA certified organic grains from suppliers they had been using, sourced mainly from western states such as Montana and Idaho. Sadly, the presence of glyphosate residue was found in organic wheat and other organic grains, including organic barley, oats, spelt, and einkorn. The range was from 0.03 to 0.06 mg/kg, just slightly lower than the conventional grains that were tested.” - See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/al...th-glyphosate-herbicide/#sthash.QxHCxZIF.dpuf

It seems likely that these Organic grain growers are using RoundUp on their organic crops to hasten ripening in case of inclement weather at the normal harvest time..

Even the crop “Eincorn” showed RoundUp residues and Eincorn F.G.S. has not been commercially grown since Utsi the Ice Man stopped an arrow. Don't give me the standard Organic BS about RoundUp contamination from neighboring farms. RoundUp is very shorty lived in the Environment, 1 will get you 10 that this RoundUp contamination happened on the “Organic” farms that was growing these crops. In fact there are certain strains of wheat that have been selectively bred to be super sensitive to RoundUp for the above reason. Even though I don't live in the Western Mountain states I suspect that the same variety of wheat is being grown in Montana and Idaho because of its sensitivity to RoundUp for the very reason given above.

Here is a broadside of all diseases (well almost all of the ailments) for which there is not a sound scientific reason behind what causes them and we are advised that RoundUp is responsible for all of them. This is little different from those great men of science C. W. Post and Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. For the young and impressionable out there C. W. Post, the founder of the Post Breakfast Food Company of the same name, is the man who first discovered that Post Grape Nuts was responsible for making your blood red. And bless his little pea picking heart, Dr. Kellogg single handily proved that tight garments, spicy food, and eating meat was responsible for masturbation, acne and poor eyesight in the young. Post and Kellogg however hasn't got anything on Big Organic Agriculture.

“Glyphosate is in 80% of our food supply in the U.S., and some scientists believe it may well be the most toxic chemical ever approved for commercial use. Glyphosate is now linked to kidney disease, antibiotic resistant bacteria, inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations. It destroys the microbiome of humans and plants, which is the root cause of many modern diseases. - See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/al...h-glyphosate-herbicide/#sthash.QxHCxZIF.dpuf”

Gee if RoundUp had never been invented back in the 1970s then you would think that The Iron Horse, (Lou Gehrig) would still be playing First Base for the New York Yankees instead of dying from RoundUp induced ALS back in 1941.

Read about it here:
http://civileats.com/2014/08/18/organic-vs-organic-how-much-does-certification-matter/

“In most cases, even certified organic produce is not pesticide-free..... The overarching concept is that natural pesticides are allowed and synthetics are prohibited, unless ….. allowed,” says Nate Lewis, a senior crop and livestock specialist at the Organic Trade Association. ….before they can use any approved [synthetic] pesticides, organic farmers must prove that they have a preventative plan in place—and that the plan is failing to prevent pests. [Whoop-De-Do.] [So if organics isn't doing it for you then try the un-organics and see if that works.] So while most organic farmers rely on plant-based pesticides such as Pyrethrum (from chrysanthemum flowers), extracts of the Benin tree, neem oil, or an extract of the Japanese knotweed root (an effective fungicide), they can occasionally use synthetic pesticides—with strict limitations.

There are roughly 40 synthetic substances farmers can use under U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) organic standards, says Lewis. Some of these are as innocuous as newspaper, which is allowed for use as mulch or as a “feedstock” for compost, or sticky traps, which provide a physical function (trapping insects) and then are removed from the field at the end of the year.
Others include zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt—essential plant micro-nutrients that cannot be used as insecticides or fungicides in most cases. [but] Instead, they’re usually used as soil amendments.”

The text in bold italics with underlining was lifted from the links provided.

 

[shortgrass]

In that case start at the beginning and lay it all on the line.
[COLOR=747474]“Next, Tropical Traditions tested the USDA certified organic grains from suppliers they had been using, sourced mainly from western states such as Montana and Idaho. Sadly, the presence of glyphosate residue was found in organic wheat and other organic grains, including organic barley, oats, spelt, and einkorn. The range was from 0.03 to 0.06 mg/kg, just slightly lower than the conventional grains that were tested.” - See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/al...th-glyphosate-herbicide/#sthash.QxHCxZIF.dpuf[/COLOR]

It seems likely that these Organic grain growers are using RoundUp on their organic crops to hasten ripening in case of inclement weather at the normal harvest time..

Even the crop “Eincorn” showed RoundUp residues and Eincorn F.G.S. has not been commercially grown since Utsi the Ice Man stopped an arrow. Don't give me the standard Organic BS about RoundUp contamination from neighboring farms. RoundUp is very shorty lived in the Environment, 1 will get you 10 that this RoundUp contamination happened on the “Organic” farms that was growing these crops. In fact there are certain strains of wheat that have been selectively bred to be super sensitive to RoundUp for the above reason. Even though I don't live in the Western Mountain states I suspect that the same variety of wheat is being grown in Montana and Idaho because of its sensitivity to RoundUp for the very reason given above.

Here is a broadside of all diseases (well almost all of the ailments) for which there is not a sound scientific reason behind what causes them and we are advised that RoundUp is responsible for all of them. This is little different from those great men of science C. W. Post and Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. For the young and impressionable out there C. W. Post, the founder of the Post Breakfast Food Company of the same name, is the man who first discovered that Post Grape Nuts was responsible for making your blood red. And bless his little pea picking heart, Dr. Kellogg single handily proved that tight garments, spicy food, and eating meat was responsible for masturbation, acne and poor eyesight in the young. Post and Kellogg however hasn't got anything on Big Organic Agriculture.

[COLOR=747474]“Glyphosate is in 80% of our food supply in the U.S., and some scientists believe it may well be the most toxic chemical ever approved for commercial use. Glyphosate is now linked to kidney disease, antibiotic resistant bacteria, inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations. It destroys the microbiome of humans and plants, which is the root cause of many modern diseases. - See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/al...th-glyphosate-herbicide/#sthash.QxHCxZIF.dpuf”[/COLOR]

Gee if RoundUp had never been invented back in the 1970s then you would think that The Iron Horse, (Lou Gehrig) would still be playing First Base for the New York Yankees instead of dying from RoundUp induced ALS back in 1941.

Read about it here:
http://civileats.com/2014/08/18/organic-vs-organic-how-much-does-certification-matter/

“[COLOR=373737]In most cases, even certified organic produce is not pesticide-free..... The overarching concept is that[/COLOR] [COLOR=373737]natural pesticides[/COLOR] [COLOR=373737]are allowed and[/COLOR] [COLOR=373737]synthetics are prohibited, unless …..[/COLOR] [COLOR=373737]allowed,” says Nate Lewis, a senior crop and livestock specialist at the [/COLOR][COLOR=00A5A5]Organic Trade Association[/COLOR][COLOR=373737]. ….before they can use any approved [synthetic] pesticides, organic farmers must prove that they have a preventative plan in place—and that the plan is failing to prevent pests. [Whoop-De-Do.] [So if organics isn't doing it for you then try the un-organics and see if that works.] So while most organic farmers rely on plant-based pesticides such as Pyrethrum (from chrysanthemum flowers), extracts of the Benin tree, neem oil, or an extract of the Japanese knotweed root (an effective fungicide), they can occasionally use synthetic pesticides—with strict limitations.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=373737]There are roughly 40 synthetic substances farmers can use under U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) organic standards, says Lewis. Some of these are as innocuous as newspaper, which is allowed for use as mulch or as a “feedstock” for compost, or sticky traps, which provide a physical function (trapping insects) and then are removed from the field at the end of the year.
Others include zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt—essential plant micro-nutrients that cannot be used as insecticides or fungicides in most cases. [but] Instead, they’re usually used as soil amendments.”[/COLOR]

The text in bold italics with underlining was lifted from the links provided.

Well you obviously like links, so here we go First, some actual research in Glyphosate, since your link was from a seriously misinformed individual as well lol... https://www.foeeurope.org/sites/def...s/foee_5_environmental_impacts_glyphosate.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20676632 http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...1/10/herbicide-poison-groundwater-supply.aspx http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Widespread_Glyphosate_Contamination_in_US.php When researching, try to look out for contradictions, and using less biased sources, like actual studies and documented tests. A site that is trying to sell a product ( like your tropical whatever people) will say ANYTHING to make a sell. Your link is flawed. Need to research conventional vs organic farming differences too... So here's some of that... http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/farming-systems-trial/ http://news.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/organic-conventional-farming-yield-gap/ http://freshconnect.com/organic-farming-vs-conventional-farming/ Your news report. http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/al...found-contaminated-with-glyphosate-herbicide/ And you can't really say with proof that ALL organic growers are going to try that. I will lose my entire farm if the USDA comes and dies a soil sample and finds out I used some hing then lied about it. And I would never be allowed to farm organic again. Most farmers wontvtake that risk, so I also don't appreciate being thrown into some bandwagon of blame over ONE sample, that oddly enough, the company wont release to the public? Hmmm something smells like fish and its not my fertilizer lol. Ok, on to fertilizers...come on, do some research lol.. My fingers hurt from all these links.. There are MINERALS, found NATURALLY, in the GROUND. Rick phosphate, azomite, dolomite lime, sulfur, and really? Cobalt, selenium, Silica, boron, calcium, manganese, silver,...uranium! ALL IN THE SOIL. MANMADE is not kosher. Agricultural lime? Way different than dolomite lime. DO THE RESEARCH before accusing an organic producer of using natural mineral ammendments as some sort if toxic stew. Wow. Ok last but not least, you have a very limited knowledge of the effects and chemical composition of round up. You can't quote for example, that Glyphosate has no soil life, and yet the SAME article also says its contaminated groundwater, its in the air, in the processing plants etc etc etc... Those are those contradictions I was warning about, how to tell if an article is verifiable and not "made up"... So, here's some more links on Glyphosate for ya. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/05/20/glyphosate-roundup-levels.aspx http://www.realfoodhouston.com/2014/11/14/is-glyphosate-monsantos-roundup-used-on-wheat/ http://npic.orst.edu/capro/whentoplant.pdf https://farmingsweetbay.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/getting-roundup-out-of-our-farms-soil/ http://www.alternet.org/story/15073...o's_most_widely_used_herbicide_being_silenced Ok, so that should be incredibly enlightening... Please do read them, and keep in mind that one bad apple doesn't have to spoil the whole bunch. I still don't actually believe you understand how farming works, so lets start there, and see what you can find out to clarify it for you better Edit...BTW, you spelled " einkorn" wrong... Might help search queries to spell correctly so we know what variety of wheat you're talking about lol.. There are thousands, so we need to be clear... Hard red is actually the most popular in northern states, we grow hard white here in CO.

 

[beginnergirl]

Thank you, Shortgrass.

 

[shortgrass]

Thank you, Shortgrass.

You are very welcome

 

[chickengeorgeto]

......Edit...BTW, you spelled " einkorn" wrong... Might help search queries to spell correctly so we know what variety of wheat you're talking about lol.. There are thousands, so we need to be clear... Hard red is actually the most popular in northern states, we grow hard white here in CO.
Edited by shortgrass - Today at 9:11 pm

You seem to be a frustrated English teacher more than an organic farmer. Are you sure that you're in the right profession?

Non of your links proved anything or provided evidence, scientific or otherwise that RoundUp is in anyway harmful to human or animal life and health. As for scientific studies there has not been ANY reliable scientific studies, no not one that has found a link between RoundUp or its active ingredient Glyphosate and any harm to the environment. The only "so called" STUDY that tried to demonstrate a link between Glyphosate and harm to animals was a fraudulent "study" performed by an Anti-GMO activist named Dr. Seralini. Dr. Seralini's anti-GMO study was full of intentional lies and flagrant scientific fraud.

Furthermore if you think that a domestic terrorist outfit like Green Peace is a reliable scientific origination, (as one of YOUR links lead) then there is no reason for me to continue this conversation because you are in denial of basic scientific facts. But it is a basic scientific fact that over 2,000 honest scientific studies performed by scientist of all political stripes and persuasions has been conducted on GMO crops including RoundUp Ready crops and not a single ONE of these studies even begins to back up your contention. As for one of your links stating that Glyphosate resulted in an increase in microbes living in the soil, that is supposedly a benefit of Organic agricultural and the practice of using human and animal manure or other composted plant and animal materials to help grow food. So tell us when is too many soil microbes too many soil microbes? Or in other words isn't Organic agriculture also guilty of increasing the microbe count in dirt?