Since that "why soy free" thread was really active, I've wondered why you guys and gals who avoid soy, don't use a different protein source like maybe raising mealworms, earthworms, or even animal by-products (fish meal is one I remember).
Organic, soy-free chicken feed?
- Thread starter ZohBug
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- Thread starter
- #22
- Nov 26, 2009
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Quote:
My question here predates the "why soy free" thread. FWIW, I live in the city -- not too far from the country, but in the city nonetheless. I can "barely" have the three banties I have and do score meal worms every now and then, but it's extremely difficult when you live in a frozen tundra -- aka WI in the dead of winter. There's no way I could grow these things here. Finding high quality, organic, fish meal and such that hasn't been contaminated with soy and genetically modified corn, would present even more of a challenge as finding organic soy-free chicken feed. I do give my chickettes a lot of "home made" snacks and such,, but want their primary feed to be an organic soy-free feed until our living situation changes and I have more experience with chickens and their needs.
My question here predates the "why soy free" thread. FWIW, I live in the city -- not too far from the country, but in the city nonetheless. I can "barely" have the three banties I have and do score meal worms every now and then, but it's extremely difficult when you live in a frozen tundra -- aka WI in the dead of winter. There's no way I could grow these things here. Finding high quality, organic, fish meal and such that hasn't been contaminated with soy and genetically modified corn, would present even more of a challenge as finding organic soy-free chicken feed. I do give my chickettes a lot of "home made" snacks and such,, but want their primary feed to be an organic soy-free feed until our living situation changes and I have more experience with chickens and their needs.
- Thread starter
- #23
- Nov 26, 2009
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For those that might be interested, I did find out that Tropical Traditions is now selling their Cocofeed through a mill in WI. Here is their response to my email inquiry:
Thank you for your interest in Tropical Traditions Cocofeed! We are now able to offer our Organic Cocofeed to customers. It will ship from a feed mill in Wisconsin. If you prefer you may also pick it up your order at the feedmill rather than shipping it to your residence. However, the order will have to be placed by phone with us first. We have a Starter/Grower ration and a Layer ration for chickens. Please check with us for availability of a turkey ration. The cost is $25 per 50 lb bag, plus shipping. There is no minimum order. Four bags or less will ship by UPS Ground. Five bags or more will ship by freight. One full pallet contains 40 bags. The more you order the more youll save in shipping costs. We will run a shipping quote manually for each individual order.
If you order 5 bags or more, we will need to know if this is shipping to a residential area and whether you have a loading dock. We will be glad to provide a truck with a lift gate and pallet jack at an additional charge if you don't have a dock.
The Cocofeed will not be available online for customers to purchase, but must be processed by phone with one of our Representatives. Cocofeed is non-GMO and does not contain soy. The Starter/Grower is 19% protein and the Layer ration is 15.8% protein. Below is the nutritional information for both rations:
15.8% Organic Layer ration
Nutrient Name: Amount Units
Crude Protein 15.8% %
Crude Fat 4.5% %
Crude Fiber 4.7% %
Calcium 3.55% %
Phosphorus 0.78% %
Salt added 0.35% %
Sodium 0.18% %
Energy 1,205 Kcal/LB
Vitamin A 4786 IU/LB
Vitamin D 1608 IU/LB
Vitamin E 50 IU/LB
Choline 1473 IU/LB
Biotin 47.7 MCG/LB
Mangenese 158.3 IU/LB
Zinc 102.2 IU/LB
Copper 14.24 IU/LB
Selenium (added) 0.30 IU/LB
Lysine 0.72% %
Methionine 0.34% %
Methionine/Cystine 0.47% %
Arginine 1.04% %
19% Organic Broiler Starter
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein, minimum 19.00%
Lysine, minimum 1.00%
Methionine, minimum .38%
Crude Fat, minimum 3.50%
Crude Fiber, maximum 3.50%
Calcium (Ca), minimum .50%
Calcium (Ca), maximum 1.00%
Phosphorus (P), minimum .50%
Salt (NaCl), minimum .20%
Salt (NaCl), maximum .40%
Vitamin A, minimum Int Units/Lb 3500
Vitamin D3, minimum Int Units/Lb 1500
Vitamin E, minimum Int Units/Lb 20.0
The ingredients for both feeds are as follows: Shell corn, peas, wheat, calcium carbonate, coconut meal, buckwheat, fish meal, crab meal, grit, monocalcium and dicalcium, phosphate, sea kelp, iodized salt, bacillus coagulans, bacillus lichenitomine, bacillus subtillis, di-methlonine, choline chloride, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, ferrous sulfate, calcium panthothenale, niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, copper oxide, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, riboflavin supplement, biotin, acid, menadione dimethylpyrimidinal bisulfite (source of vitamin K), thlamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, calcium iodate, vitamin B12 supplement.
If you have any questions or would like to place an order please feel free to reply to this email. If you would like to order, please include the following information:
shipping address
ration type
amount desired
residential, farm, or commercial address
whether dock and equipment will be available for unloading
We will email you a shipping quote as quickly as possible. When you are ready to finalize your order, you may call us at our toll free # 1-866-311-2626 x 2 between 9:00 am 5:00 pm CST M-F. Feed orders will be shipped directly from the feed mill once a week on Thursdays. We look forward to hearing from you. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Kay
Agriculture Specialist
Tropical Traditions
Thank you for your interest in Tropical Traditions Cocofeed! We are now able to offer our Organic Cocofeed to customers. It will ship from a feed mill in Wisconsin. If you prefer you may also pick it up your order at the feedmill rather than shipping it to your residence. However, the order will have to be placed by phone with us first. We have a Starter/Grower ration and a Layer ration for chickens. Please check with us for availability of a turkey ration. The cost is $25 per 50 lb bag, plus shipping. There is no minimum order. Four bags or less will ship by UPS Ground. Five bags or more will ship by freight. One full pallet contains 40 bags. The more you order the more youll save in shipping costs. We will run a shipping quote manually for each individual order.
If you order 5 bags or more, we will need to know if this is shipping to a residential area and whether you have a loading dock. We will be glad to provide a truck with a lift gate and pallet jack at an additional charge if you don't have a dock.
The Cocofeed will not be available online for customers to purchase, but must be processed by phone with one of our Representatives. Cocofeed is non-GMO and does not contain soy. The Starter/Grower is 19% protein and the Layer ration is 15.8% protein. Below is the nutritional information for both rations:
15.8% Organic Layer ration
Nutrient Name: Amount Units
Crude Protein 15.8% %
Crude Fat 4.5% %
Crude Fiber 4.7% %
Calcium 3.55% %
Phosphorus 0.78% %
Salt added 0.35% %
Sodium 0.18% %
Energy 1,205 Kcal/LB
Vitamin A 4786 IU/LB
Vitamin D 1608 IU/LB
Vitamin E 50 IU/LB
Choline 1473 IU/LB
Biotin 47.7 MCG/LB
Mangenese 158.3 IU/LB
Zinc 102.2 IU/LB
Copper 14.24 IU/LB
Selenium (added) 0.30 IU/LB
Lysine 0.72% %
Methionine 0.34% %
Methionine/Cystine 0.47% %
Arginine 1.04% %
19% Organic Broiler Starter
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein, minimum 19.00%
Lysine, minimum 1.00%
Methionine, minimum .38%
Crude Fat, minimum 3.50%
Crude Fiber, maximum 3.50%
Calcium (Ca), minimum .50%
Calcium (Ca), maximum 1.00%
Phosphorus (P), minimum .50%
Salt (NaCl), minimum .20%
Salt (NaCl), maximum .40%
Vitamin A, minimum Int Units/Lb 3500
Vitamin D3, minimum Int Units/Lb 1500
Vitamin E, minimum Int Units/Lb 20.0
The ingredients for both feeds are as follows: Shell corn, peas, wheat, calcium carbonate, coconut meal, buckwheat, fish meal, crab meal, grit, monocalcium and dicalcium, phosphate, sea kelp, iodized salt, bacillus coagulans, bacillus lichenitomine, bacillus subtillis, di-methlonine, choline chloride, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, ferrous sulfate, calcium panthothenale, niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, copper oxide, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, riboflavin supplement, biotin, acid, menadione dimethylpyrimidinal bisulfite (source of vitamin K), thlamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, calcium iodate, vitamin B12 supplement.
If you have any questions or would like to place an order please feel free to reply to this email. If you would like to order, please include the following information:
shipping address
ration type
amount desired
residential, farm, or commercial address
whether dock and equipment will be available for unloading
We will email you a shipping quote as quickly as possible. When you are ready to finalize your order, you may call us at our toll free # 1-866-311-2626 x 2 between 9:00 am 5:00 pm CST M-F. Feed orders will be shipped directly from the feed mill once a week on Thursdays. We look forward to hearing from you. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Kay
Agriculture Specialist
Tropical Traditions
- Mar 21, 2009
- 2,229
- 52
- 349
Quote:
That's absolutely not a dumb question! I avoid soy as much as possible (it's extremely difficult to avoid it completely) because it has caused a few problems for me personally: thyroid issues, problems with my menstrual cycle, osteoporosis diagnosed at age 37 (and I'm in a very very "low risk" group), and it has contributed to my severe vitamin D deficiency. I also believe that soy contributed to struggles with my weight when I was a vegetarian, and sometimes vegan, for nearly 20 years and I've had no problems with my weight since avoiding it. Some people do fine with soy, but I don't. The other issue is that soy is one of the most genetically modified crops in this country -- somewhere between 80-90% of all soy in the US is GM soy, and I also try to avoid GM products. Again, a matter of personal choice. I also find that my kids do better off of soy in terms of their ability to focus and learn though I am admittedly biased.
Here's a bit more information: http://www.westonaprice.org/The-Soy-Controversy.html
Those are probably all good things to consider about soy (as well as some other grains as far as the GMO issue). I am not terribly considered about soy in general in my own diet, but I do eat it in much more moderation than I used to when I was a vegan. One of the main things with being a vegetarian or vegan, in my opinion, is the difficulty in getting adequate protein without consuming a bunch of carbs. That was always something I struggled with and it certainly became a problem for me health wise (but, that is whole other subject). I have known a lot of vegans with weight problems. The amount of soy consumed may very well have something to do with that (even if indirectly).
That's absolutely not a dumb question! I avoid soy as much as possible (it's extremely difficult to avoid it completely) because it has caused a few problems for me personally: thyroid issues, problems with my menstrual cycle, osteoporosis diagnosed at age 37 (and I'm in a very very "low risk" group), and it has contributed to my severe vitamin D deficiency. I also believe that soy contributed to struggles with my weight when I was a vegetarian, and sometimes vegan, for nearly 20 years and I've had no problems with my weight since avoiding it. Some people do fine with soy, but I don't. The other issue is that soy is one of the most genetically modified crops in this country -- somewhere between 80-90% of all soy in the US is GM soy, and I also try to avoid GM products. Again, a matter of personal choice. I also find that my kids do better off of soy in terms of their ability to focus and learn though I am admittedly biased.
Here's a bit more information: http://www.westonaprice.org/The-Soy-Controversy.html
Those are probably all good things to consider about soy (as well as some other grains as far as the GMO issue). I am not terribly considered about soy in general in my own diet, but I do eat it in much more moderation than I used to when I was a vegan. One of the main things with being a vegetarian or vegan, in my opinion, is the difficulty in getting adequate protein without consuming a bunch of carbs. That was always something I struggled with and it certainly became a problem for me health wise (but, that is whole other subject). I have known a lot of vegans with weight problems. The amount of soy consumed may very well have something to do with that (even if indirectly).
- Mar 21, 2009
- 2,229
- 52
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Zohbug- That formulation looks very similar to the Countryside Natural's formula with just a few differences. Let us know how your bird does on it if you try it! The biggest issue with getting organic feed, for me, is the shipping. It is just a killer. It makes it almost triple the cost of conventional feed if you don't have a local supplier and you have to order it in such huge bulk to significantly get the price down. Of course, the shipping would be high shipping regular chicken feed as well, but it is so much easier to come by locally that this is not an issue. You can also order some of the components separately, like the fish meal, from places like Countryside and just add it to a grain mix you make yourself from items purchased locally.
- Thread starter
- #26
- Nov 26, 2009
- 45
- 1
- 24
There are some studies being done that directly link soy to obesity. I have kids hanging on me right now so can't get my links to the original research articles, but here's the piece from Newsweek and a quote:
"Within a year of Blumberg's groundbreaking work, it became clear that altering cells' fate isn't the only way obesogens can act, and that exotic pollutants aren't the only potential obesogens. In 2005 Newbold began feeding newborn rats genistein, an estrogenlike compound found in soy, at doses like those in soy milk and soy formula. By the age of 3 or 4 months, the rats had higher stores of fat and a noticeable increase in body weight. And once again, mice fed genistein did not eat significantly morenot enough more, anyway, to account for their extra avoirdupois, suggesting that the compound threw a wrench in the workings of the body's metabolic rate. "The only way to gain weight is to take in more calories than you burn," says Blumberg. "But there are lots of variables, such as how efficiently calories are used." Someone who uses calories very efficiently, and burns fewer to stay warm, has more left over to turn into fat. "One of the messages of the obesogens research is that prenatal exposure can reprogram metabolism so that you are predisposed to become fat," says Blumberg."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/215179
"Within a year of Blumberg's groundbreaking work, it became clear that altering cells' fate isn't the only way obesogens can act, and that exotic pollutants aren't the only potential obesogens. In 2005 Newbold began feeding newborn rats genistein, an estrogenlike compound found in soy, at doses like those in soy milk and soy formula. By the age of 3 or 4 months, the rats had higher stores of fat and a noticeable increase in body weight. And once again, mice fed genistein did not eat significantly morenot enough more, anyway, to account for their extra avoirdupois, suggesting that the compound threw a wrench in the workings of the body's metabolic rate. "The only way to gain weight is to take in more calories than you burn," says Blumberg. "But there are lots of variables, such as how efficiently calories are used." Someone who uses calories very efficiently, and burns fewer to stay warm, has more left over to turn into fat. "One of the messages of the obesogens research is that prenatal exposure can reprogram metabolism so that you are predisposed to become fat," says Blumberg."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/215179
- Thread starter
- #27
- Nov 26, 2009
- 45
- 1
- 24
Quote:
I hear you on the shipping. I feel fortunate to live in WI for a change... not an easy thing to do in winter.
Since I don't have many chickens, the other thing I've been fortunate on is having offers from the couple of farmers who sell soy-free eggs to be able to buy feed from them in whatever quantities I want, and since they buy in large quantities, I can get it at relatively low cost which is nice if I want to try something out. I'm able to get the organic, soy free feed from Cashton at a pretty decent price from one of the local farmers in 10lb increments which means I don't have to schlep 50lb bags. I think I will try the Cocofeed though I'm going to see if I can sweet talk one of my local farmer friends into trying it first and buy some off of them so I don't have to order 50lbs for 3 chickettes.
I hear you on the shipping. I feel fortunate to live in WI for a change... not an easy thing to do in winter.
Quote:
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
- Thread starter
- #29
- Nov 26, 2009
- 45
- 1
- 24
Quote:
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
YUM! That's how the eggs are that we get from our farmer who sells soy-free eggs. They're beautiful and so flavorful it's amazing. We compare them to the eggs we get from another farmer who sells pastured eggs, and while those are good, they aren't as good. We really can taste the difference. I bought 20doz a few months ago and bartered 4doz with a friend who had been buying pastured eggs to eat raw and she hasn't bought regular pastured eggs since, so it's not just about the soy for her (she doesn't actively avoid it), it's about the flavor.
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
YUM! That's how the eggs are that we get from our farmer who sells soy-free eggs. They're beautiful and so flavorful it's amazing. We compare them to the eggs we get from another farmer who sells pastured eggs, and while those are good, they aren't as good. We really can taste the difference. I bought 20doz a few months ago and bartered 4doz with a friend who had been buying pastured eggs to eat raw and she hasn't bought regular pastured eggs since, so it's not just about the soy for her (she doesn't actively avoid it), it's about the flavor.
- Jul 30, 2009
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Quote:
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
Us too! With on exception. Lots of barley in winter as we live in Alaska.
Fabulous eggs. Nothing like the commercial feed plus pasture eggs.
I do. Fish meal. And fresh pasture.
Our egg yolks are atomic orange.
Us too! With on exception. Lots of barley in winter as we live in Alaska.
Fabulous eggs. Nothing like the commercial feed plus pasture eggs.
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