Orpingtons of Different Standards

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Splash has been an accepted variety for silkies for a long time. Pretty sure there are other breeds where it has been recognised for quite a while, as well.
 
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There are already many breeds; he is simply wanting to ADD a breed that is currently unrecognised. Much in the same way that seramas or marans have been shown, although both are now recognuised (but only in this past year). The only confusing factor is the name, and as the breed entered is "British Orpington" and the British standard is provided to the show staff and judges (preferably ahead of time) it seems reasonable. If there are sufficient breeders and time working with the bird here in the US, then submitting a copy of the standard to the APA forfuture recognition also seems appropriate.

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I have to say this question has been on my mind also since I ran across your Posting of "Orpingtons of Different Standards" Since quite a few of us have 100% or 50% english flocks you have continued on a quest to dis-credit up til now the approval of what "we" own. Why the big change?

As for people owning cochins, I'm sure they dis-prove of someone saying our english look like those. I do not see a resemblance at all except they are birds and have feathers!
 
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Then you would have to have 2 different SOP's for Rhode Islands, and 2 different SOP's for New Hampshire, 2 different SOP's for Cochins and on and on and on. Face it there is an APA who does not want to have to bow to the European SOP's. We have our own SOP's. IF you like to show in the APA I suggest you get birds that meet the APA. Most here on BYC do not show. Most here like their birds the way they make em. Not to any SOP, and not to the APA. I say most not all.
And IF they haven't added Lavs or Splashes to the Orp APA SOP what makes you think that the 100 or so folks who prefer UK Orps will get bumped to the front of the list to be added to the APA? Just will not happen the way I see it.
Let me also mention that there are so many other breeds not accepted to the APA cause they do not have a breed club supporting them. To have the UKers added you need folks who are willing to show in the APA and have events for accepting them like what the Marans folks have done. I do not see but a handful in the USA willing to show their UK Orps. I certainly did not see any at the Crossroads which would be accepted by the UK SOP. And that is the biggest show of last year.

huh, I do show mine, won with one once, will show more of them in March. nope, not a big time breeder or show person but I enjoy them and will take them to shows. not an expert on how things work with APA. that is why I asked WHY? why would the APA be "bowing" to the Euro sop? its not allowed to accept a bird into the APA from any other country and leave them the way they originated? it HAS to be changed to fit the american version? I dont understand that. is it law? why do the APA not want "their" birds they way they made them? APA is so exclusive only they can make a bird the right way ? Is that what APA states or just an opinion? Most here on BYC do not show, very true, but we are in the breeds genetics and showing forum here, for people who do show and breed. should we not discuss showing our birds here? I thought that was what this forum was for. I think being able to discuss how to get them accepted and in the shows is a start. I think this discussion never gets to go anywhere because there are some who want to fight and argue about it. my thought, if a person does not plan to have these birds, breed them or show them, they dont have a dog in the fight and should refrain from commenting, its ok to like or not like them, but the arguing should be left off.
its my understanding that splash and lav can be accepted, it just takes work and participation from breeders to breed them and exhibit them for so many years. the APA is not unwilling to accept them if they are proven by the breeders right?

The naysayers are expressing their opinions. Unless they are on the APA Standards Committee, they have no actual say in what will occur. There are plenty of exhibitors that think silkies shouldn't be an accepted breed, yet they have been recognised from the very beginning, and are one of the oldest breeds in the world.

The process requires five documented breeders that have been breeding them for at least five years. There are paperwork to be filled out and fees to be paid, then a given number of birds in all age/gender categories must be shown at a qualifying meet. The judges will be looking to see that all or at least most of the birds shown conform to the presented standard. They can reject, postpone or accept the breed and varieties. If they reject, the process will have to be re-started. If postponed, there will be at least one additional qualifying meets where they will be considered.

I strongly agree that fighting about it is silly--it seems like the purpose of this thread should be breeding to the UK standard, discussing exactly what it is and is not, noting the differences in the standards between UK and US, discussing the shows where thy have been/will be exhibited, presenting paperwork to the APA, etc.

Discussing whether it is a good idea or not is pointless here; if that is your viewpoint, then perhaps this is not the thread for you.
 
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RedReiner wrote: why would the APA be "bowing" to the Euro sop?

You will have to ask Sam Brush "why". I am not an authority on APA rules. But I do know what the Marans folks had to do to get their breed accpted. They had to have a qualifying meet twice! And unless you and 49 other UK Orp breeders want to show at the same time same show, which I do not see happening, you will not get these accepted as a separate and unique breed.



RedReiner wrote: its not allowed to accept a bird into the APA from any other country and leave them the way they originated?

Same can be said "WHY" the Rhode Islands and New Hampshires do not look the same as our APA versions in Europe.
For the Marans to be accepted in the APA they had to change their tail angle to 45 degree.
The folks in UK do not like a feathered shank so they changed their Marans to have them with no feathers on their shanks. This is not done to make the folks who created these breeds happy. This is done to get a breed accepted. Nothing can be done in Europe about the RI's or New Hamps, so why do you call out the APA for doing the same here?

RedReiner wrote: Most here on BYC do not show, very true, but we are in the breeds genetics and showing forum here, for people who do show and breed. should we not discuss showing our birds here? I thought that was what this forum was for. I think being able to discuss how to get them accepted and in the shows is a start.

We are discussing how to get them accepted here on BYC.



RedReiner wrote: I think this discussion never gets to go anywhere because there are some who want to fight and argue about it. my thought, if a person does not plan to have these birds, breed them or show them, they dont have a dog in the fight and should refrain from commenting, its ok to like or not like them, but the arguing should be left off.
its my understanding that splash and lav can be accepted, it just takes work and participation from breeders to breed them and exhibit them for so many years. the APA is not unwilling to accept them if they are proven by the breeders right?

Well I do have them. IF you go on both the UK thread and the original Orp thread you can see my Blues that are direct offspring from Julie's boy & sister I got at the Ohio Nationals.. And I do not call it arguing when I am simply pointing out what you need to do to get them accepted as a NEW breed. I did not make the rules for the APA. And the APA does not consider what websites think in what to do with their Association. They have been around for a 100 years. So your points are directed at the wrong person.
 
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5 breeders, not 50. It is a minimum of 50 birds; and cocks, hens, cockerels and pullets must all be shown at an APA National or semi-national. If there is really interest in the breed, those working on it will show up.
 
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I am sorry I was told 50 birds at the qualifying meet. And did say 50 breeders. But that is obviously not correct.
 
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Thank You for the well written explanation. one would need to work with the parent club to get this accomplished. and I assume the parent club would be the one to vote on what the variety would end up being called?
 
I'm not sure why people keep referring to them as a different "breed" and not "variety"??? THESE ARE ALL ORPINGTONS REGARDLESS OF STANDARD - AMERICAN OR UK. They are NOT different breeds.
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Thank You for the well written explanation. one would need to work with the parent club to get this accomplished. and I assume the parent club would be the one to vote on what the variety would end up being called?

If there is an orpington club, you could either work with it, if they are accepting of a new breed of orpingtons, or if not, form a British Orpington Breed Club with an initial goal of promoting the breed and getting it recognised. Ultimately it will up to the APA as to what to call the breed. You can certainly propose a name to them, but they may or may not agree to the proposed name, and that comes even before qualifying meets. Note that silkie breeders wanted lavender silkies to be recognised as lavenders; both APA and ABA said, "No, self-blue." So that is what is was recognised as. Likewise, khaki was selected by the ABA and APA; offhand I do not recall the name that was wanted instead.
 
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