Our Dog Killed the Neighbors' Turkey Poult

[ShrekDawg]

Yes, you are right. Back to square one with training around the birds. Albie will NEVER be setting foot on the neighbors property again. Sadly that means playtime with his BFF lab will be over or at least on hold for a while. We are mortified.

I wouldn’t say never just yet. It’s possible he can learn or maybe they would be willing to keep the poultry penned up for playtime? Just to be safe. Or if you have a fenced yard maybe he could come to your property for playtime? I wouldn’t stop him from seeing his friend. But I would definitely work on training for a bit.

But he’s still a puppy, most dogs don’t fully mature and start calming down until around 2-3 years old and some of the goofier breeds never do. Training takes about that long too.

It sounds to me like he just got too hyped up playing with his friend and the overarousal caused him to want to give chase. Plus he may have never seen a turkey poult before? Has he ever been around other birds besides chickens? It was likely new and exciting to him.

Don’t give up!

I know it’s hard but he wasn’t being mean or malicious or anything like that and he’s not a vicious killer.

Seems to me he just wanted to play with the fluffy squeaky toy

 

[LizzzyJo]

I am so so sorry this happened. Please, don't get rid of Albie. He looks like a beautiful, intelligent dog. Keep him on leash until he can be appropriately instructed once again. We had a dog become a chicken friendly dog at 5 years old (GSDx). He will be just fine, but it will take time. He's a baby and babies need forgiveness.

Edit to say that my GSD still (4 years later) kills chicks, but not adults. She has killed a chick in the past and always goes for them. She is not allowed out when I have babies in the flock until they look like adults. She has never shown interest in killing an adult.

 

[Vickischics]

**I'm not sure what I'm looking for when writing this post. Maybe to just be able to get this off my chest or to see if others have had shared experiences. Maybe an attempt at catharsis. Any thoughts our personal insights are much appreciated. We are having a hard time with this.**

BACKGROUND OF DOG: Albie dog is a big, goofy, outgoing, sweet 8 month old GSD mix we have had since 10 weeks old. We immediately took to training him with our small backyard flock and our two cats to make sure he learned such animals are off limits. He has done amazingly well with the cats--never showed any kind of fixation or prey drive towards them though he does love them and *wishes* they loved him, too. Regarding the chickens: not great, but not bad. He's been off leash with them free ranging and would occasionally want to chase the ones that were startled and ran but he'd just do a playful pounce around them, and would stop upon command. He did fine around the neighbors chickens before--interested but then called off easily, or attention averted. The neighbors were fine with him being around when we'd come to their property to socialize. Sadly, we lapsed with the poultry training. It got crazy hot out, and we were very busy organizing a backyard wedding with close family that occurred last week. Albie fell to the back burner a bit in terms of training.

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THE ATTACK: Albie LOVES playing with the neighbors' black lab, and they always kindly invite us up for playtime. Their lab happened onto our front porch yesterday evening and we let Albie out to play with him. They ran over to the neighbors yard, so we followed them up to chat with the neighbors. Albie was so amped up running with his friend and doing quite well with training cues. We relaxed. Only then to notice the neighbors pullets were out free ranging. He was ignoring them and sadly we did not think too much of it immediately. Then a turkey poult flew by and he got tunnel vision--wouldn't listen and instantly chased. He's SO FAST. By the time we caught up with him on the other side of the property he had the poor thing in his mouth. He immediately dropped it and she ran off--so I thought she was okay. But upon inspection she had some some puncture wounds around her wings--not much blood but you could see the skin was broken. After taking her into the neighbor's house for emergency care, it became clear she was slowly slipping away, struggling to breathe and flopping over. I kept hoping she'd pull through but she passed within about 10 minutes. I keep replaying it over and over again in my head and feel so sorry. She didn't deserve this. Beautiful, sweet, young bird.

AFTERMATH: While I was trying to give medical care to the turkey pullet my husband scolded the dog and put him in his kennel. We were horrified, embarrassed, guilty beyond belief, and so full of shame. Our immediate impulse was to give Albie away to a non-poultry family. I'm worried about him breaking out of his kennel and attacking our chickens now or the neighbors' chickens again. I'm also worried if this prey drive will suddenly include our cats, though he still seems to treat them like normal (which is sweet, calm, etc.). I know I should not act rashly and wait for the emotions to pass a bit, but I just feel so stuck about everything. For now, no off leash time when the chickens are free-ranging. In the kennel or out for walks/fetch off property otherwise.

The neighbors have been gracious though I know they are upset. They won't accept money or any compensation, though we will be getting them a hefty gift card to Rural King and a card with some flowers. They made a point of saying not to blame Albie, so I'm not sure they *want* him gone. But right now we can't bear to look at him. I'm worried we want him gone. He's amazing with humans of all ages/sizes and dogs (and for now, cats), but we live in chicken central, and he can't be trusted.

HELP?: Has anyone else had this happen? What should you/would you do? Any tips on getting through or moving past this in a way that is best for all parties? Anyone invent a time machine yet?

**RIP little turkey, I wish you could know how sorry I am and I wish I could bring you back. **

 

[Vickischics]

First all, you have experienced a very disappointing behavior in your Gorgeous Albi. Naturally, you feel terrible about the chicken but, I as a King Shepard owner pride myself in my ability to have trained her in Advanced obedience. I did not see your pups tail but, that would be a dead give away of being a King Shepard especially by the pictures and the weight of 80lbs @ eight mos.
A King Shepard is a mix of a GSD/Shiloh Shepard with a very high excitable prey drive. These dogs are often used for Boarder Control because of the prey drive, with tuffs between the toes, ears and thick undercoat on the back hunches.
Did I describe your dog? Please send me a picture of his tail.
I know this sounds dumb but, I trained my King Shepard with my new flock of chickens. But, even at 7 years old, I have to keep an eye out.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Wow... That is a horrible situation, but It is a strong person to admit that you, as the human and guardian of both of these animals, might have been the reason for the attack. I have left the door open on many a pen before. Also, in the presence of large pups who will attack. The hardest thing to do is admit that I was at fault. The dog is doing what it was bred to do, but had not been trained yet to do, which would be to leave it. I am one of those constant dog training types... They are never to old to learn.... but it has taken me many years to get to this stage with even me. MANY... years...LOL! I know my current dog would never intentionally hurt my chickens, but she does find it fun to watch them run... so they are not a free ranging flock. I try to set BOTH dog and chicken up for success.... That way...she is trained how to behave around them and if one would get out, I am praying that she will also know to leave it alone!

This sounds like the best case scenario for our pup. He doesn't seem hell bent on wanting to catch and kill chickens but he's a little to interested whenever they run/fly suddenly (I can see that ancient instinct twinkling in his eyes or something). He's good at leaving it when we're around but we can't control high octane situations so we will need to ensure both flock and dog are under tight control. That said we'll still on-leash train him around them so, as you noted, should something happen and our dog happens to be around a chicken unplanned, he will hopefully not go in for the kill.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Don’t give up on your pup. Yeah, the incident was unfortunate but he is still young and impulsive. Keep training him, work on Obedience and “leave it”, and don’t allow him unsupervised around your birds.
I still won’t leave my boxers around my ducks and chickens even though they are good with my cat because they would want to “play” with them. They rough-house with the cat but the cat likes it and actively participates. Birds are too fragile for that.
Your pup likely wanted to play. The turkey ran, the dog went after it. Remember too, the dog doesn’t even remember it.
He still has to mature as well.
He is a pretty pup, by the way.

This is heartening, thanks. He's great at leave it in controlled environments, so as another poster mentioned, we will start upping the distractions to work with him. I do hope this was the result of a specific, highly charged context (playmate, excitement, sudden flutter of movement from a bird he hasn't seen before, etc.) and NOT evidence that he is going to turn into an uncontrollably prey driven dog.

In particular, I'm suddenly fearing for my cats. They aren't left home together or anything but they are always free roaming around the house and things can happen--as I saw unfold with the turkey--SO fast. The cats have gated "cat safe" zones and there are even a couple rooms Albie knows he isn't allowed in (so he NEVER enters them unless invited--and even then looks at you like, "are you sure?"), so he really only has run of the kitchen/living room of the house. That said, I truly hope he doesn't categorize the cats in the same way he did the turkey. From observation, he approaches the cats as curious playmates that hate him but he wants to win over. (Side story: recently there's been a mouse in the house and the cats have been feverishly stepping up to their duty to get it... Whenever they are playing "trap the mouse," Albie wanders over and wants to join. He can tell they're looking for something but he doesn't know what so he just aimlessly looks around pretending to be one of the gang until a cat finally gets annoyed and swats/hisses him away).

Sorry for the digression. What happened the other evening is my worst nightmare, but him getting one of our cats might even trump that! Was good to hear your story about your cats and dog!

 

[RobertaD1]

This sounds like the best case scenario for our pup. He doesn't seem hell bent on wanting to catch and kill chickens but he's a little to interested whenever they run/fly suddenly (I can see that ancient instinct twinkling in his eyes or something). He's good at leaving it when we're around but we can't control high octane situations so we will need to ensure both flock and dog are under tight control. That said we'll still on-leash train him around them so, as you noted, should something happen and our dog happens to be around a chicken unplanned, he will hopefully not go in for the kill.

Time will help. Pups are unpredictable at best. But, with time and training, they get better. You got this!!! Dont get discouraged. It may be that they can not roam together... and that's ok too!

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

I wouldn’t say never just yet. It’s possible he can learn or maybe they would be willing to keep the poultry penned up for playtime? Just to be safe. Or if you have a fenced yard maybe he could come to your property for playtime? I wouldn’t stop him from seeing his friend. But I would definitely work on training for a bit.

But he’s still a puppy, most dogs don’t fully mature and start calming down until around 2-3 years old and some of the goofier breeds never do. Training takes about that long too.

It sounds to me like he just got too hyped up playing with his friend and the overarousal caused him to want to give chase. Plus he may have never seen a turkey poult before? Has he ever been around other birds besides chickens? It was likely new and exciting to him.

Don’t give up!

I know it’s hard but he wasn’t being mean or malicious or anything like that and he’s not a vicious killer. ❤

Seems to me he just wanted to play with the fluffy squeaky toy

We do not yet have a fenced in yard, nor do they, so it might have to be controlled playtime (like you mentioned, birds penned up). This was actually the first time Albie ever saw their birds out--we just didn't know they were out until it was too late. And I think the neighbors assumed Albie would be fine with their birds because he had been with ours. I hope, as time mends our wounds, we can move past this as neighbors (we've had such a GREAT relationship with them, I'd hate for this to ruin that!).

I do hear 2-3 years is when they might calm down a bit. I think he'll always be a goofball. But judging how he is around the house and on a normal day, he is quite a calm, controllable dog. He just gets overly stimulated by things he loves--new people, other dogs, etc.--and turns into a giant, hyperactive blur.

Thanks for the reassurance. As I just replied to a previous poster, my fears are now that this will extend to my cats who I had always thought were relatively safe (he's been so great with them). I'll be keeping a close eye, and will not give up.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

I am so so sorry this happened. Please, don't get rid of Albie. He looks like a beautiful, intelligent dog. Keep him on leash until he can be appropriately instructed once again. We had a dog become a chicken friendly dog at 5 years old (GSDx). He will be just fine, but it will take time. He's a baby and babies need forgiveness.

Edit to say that my GSD still (4 years later) kills chicks, but not adults. She has killed a chick in the past and always goes for them. She is not allowed out when I have babies in the flock until they look like adults. She has never shown interest in killing an adult.

Thank you for the anecdote and kudos for working with your 5 year old GSD so hard! I forgive him, but am still haunted by the image of the dying bird (life is so unfair!). I'm slowly starting think about that image less, and to be able to enjoy time with him without my mind replaying what happened.

I don't think Albie could ever be around chicks--too huge and goofy. Would easily accidentally kill by sheer clumsiness. Maybe chickens. Fingers crossed.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Im glad to hear that you are feeling a bit better. Puppies will be puppies.... and you could have a VERY good livestock dog if you keep at it! Dogs live in the moment, so remember when you continue training, to remain calm. The turkey moment is over for him.... he wont understand your anger. Stay firm, but try to keep your emotions at bay. He will be able to read your anxiety.... and it will make training harder. Sending Positive Training Vibes Your WAY!!!!

You are right. Training Albie means also training myself! This is my first dog and while overall he's been great, this thing happening was so out of my range of experience. I felt helpless and irresponsible. I will work hard to do better by him and to get his behavior in check through more dilligent, focused training.